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I must have a unicorn....

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
All these posts about battery degradation for model 3s, have me convinced I must have a unicorn model 3P. I have mentioned several times that I dont have any "charging regimen" other than what is generally said in the manual and shown in the car:

1. I charge to 90% (the highest level that is shown for daily use, and not "trips")
2. I plug in my car every single time it enters my garage. This is generally once per day when I arrive home from work, but if I run errands on the weekends when I get back home, I pull into my garage, and plug in, no exceptions).
3. I only charge to 100% when I "need" to, which is generally only if I am going to go into LA or OC from where I am, which is either Temecula CA or Oceanside CA most times.
4. My commute is 80 real miles round trip daily to work and back home, which takes between 80 "car miles" to 130 "car miles" depending on weather, traffic, time of year, and how I choose to drive.

Basically, I charge to 90% and plug in, thats it.

I have over 14k miles on my battery and no RATED RANGE degradation. When I got my car in December of 2018, like many new owners, I charged to 100% in the first couple of weeks "just to check". To my abject horror, it only charged to 306 instead of 310. "OMG, this new car with less than 1k miles already has battery degradation!!!" I thought. I tried discharging to 20 percent, and charging to 100%, no change.

I tried that a couple times, and read every single battery degradation thread on here

I made an appointment with my local Tesla service center. They told me "there is nothing wrong with your car, drive it more, its not real degradation, if there is a problem with the battery, the car lights up like a xmas tree, we will know about it" . I thought "yeah right, they are just pushing me off, I want this noted that this is a problem in case it shows up later".

(NOTE: Does this pattern sound familiar to anyone? Its pretty much the exact same thing that 90% of the people in all these battery degradation threads are doing).

I was upset, scared that my new car, that I expected to have for at least 6-7 years, was already starting off with a problem that tesla wouldnt even acknowledge.

I didnt sign up for teslafi or anything like that at the time, as I thought I would just get more upset at my "never had 4 miles of range" (sounds silly typing it out now, but this is how I felt, and I am fairly certain this is also how everyone who is starting all these battery threads feels, at least in general).

I just pushed it to the back of my mind, and drove.... charging like I said above, basically never changing.

As time went on, I noticed that my 90% charge was always shown as 279... occasionally 278 but usually 279, and as I put on more and more miles It never changed. I kept reading all these battery threads, and one thing I noticed was , almost NO ONE posting on these threads was doing exactly what I was doing. Some were charging to 80% every day. Some were charging every other day. Some were living off supercharging, either because "its free" or because they have to as they have no home charging. Almost no one posting these issues with the display of range "charges to 90%, every day, plugs in every day, and just leaves it alone.

I charged to 100% a few months later to check, and, the car charged to 309 miles (which was more than delivered, per my story above). Recently, I installed teslafi, and it shows the capacity for my car is....309-310 miles, after 14,000+ miles.

See teslafi chart attached in this post.

With more time under my belt, and more information from reading all the threads, I have come to believe that the "degradation "that most are showing is just a display of rated miles, not real degradation. I have no proof of this, just anecdotal reading. I am also not saying that charging to 90% is "better" than charging to 80%. Physics and the way batteries work say thats not the case, although, I dont believe there will be much difference in the longevity of my battery vs someone who charges at 80%. Making stuff up, maybe the threshhold for 70% degradation in my car ends up being 200k miles and someone who charges to 80% daily has one of 220k miles or something.

All the research says to avoid 100% if you can and as you go down in percentage it gets better but 60% is only a little better than 70%. Anyway....

So, one of a few things is true:

1. I have a unicorn model 3, based on the number of people who are posting all the degradation stories. My car is somehow different from all of theirs.
2. Something I am doing is different from them to have my rated miles display with basically no battery loss after 14k miles.

On the off chance that number 2 is correct, I suggest that ANYONE who is "bothered" by the "loss of 3-5-10 rated miles" and is NOT "charging to 90%, every day, and not supercharging" try it for a week to 10 days, to see if it changes your display of miles. I dont actually believe that "My" car is somehow that special.
 

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Puddles

Member
Jun 2, 2017
728
848
Fresno, CA
That’s the trouble with the internet. If you google “headache “ you immediately conclude you have brain cancer. James Thurber wrote a fable about how everything is better the next morning. I’ll just assume there’s a lesson there about leaping to conclusions.

I have the same unicorn version of the car. I drive it about 2500 miles per month, and generally charge it to 70-80%. I *do* have teslafi, so I have undisputed evidence of sudden but infrequent “degradation.” Damn it! I lost 6 miles last night!, I will shout. But wait a minute, it always corresponds with a software update. Could it be a calculation was tweaked? A threshold was adjusted? Or is it cancer?

I’m not saying it’s impossible to get a substandard battery pack, but with so many model 3’s on the road, we would know if it’s common.

Congrats on your perfectly normal unicorn. It sounds like you’re enjoying yours as much as I am mine. And don’t pay too much attention to the nervous nellies.
 

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
567
Germany
One more pic
TeslaFI is a bit inaccurate when it comes to battery degradation calculation, since they use limited data. Charge it to 100% and see what it says. I think it will be around the 306-7 you mentioned.

Also, some people get lucky and they get more kWh nominal than the rated EPA is using for their calculation. If you get 1kWh more you get about 5 or so miles more which the display doesn't show as it is limited to 310. So you might have gotten 315m rated pack and just lucked out and the degradation is hidden, because you had more capacity than expected. It is highly unlikely that you have zero degradation, maybe 1-2% for sure.
 

T3SLAROD

Member
May 14, 2019
751
670
SoCal
I think you are right. I am in the same situation, I plug in everyday and drive 160 miles a day except for the weekends. I thought I had battery degradation until yesterday I decided to check what my 50% battery translated to miles, it turn out to be 158. That roughly gives me 316 at full charge, down from 325 with 14k miles. Hopefully it stays around this range for a while. Love the car.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
TeslaFI is a bit inaccurate when it comes to battery degradation calculation, since they use limited data. Charge it to 100% and see what it says. I think it will be around the 306-7 you mentioned.

Also, some people get lucky and they get more kWh nominal than the rated EPA is using for their calculation. If you get 1kWh more you get about 5 or so miles more which the display doesn't show as it is limited to 310. So you might have gotten 315m rated pack and just lucked out and the degradation is hidden, because you had more capacity than expected. It is highly unlikely that you have zero degradation, maybe 1-2% for sure.

I actually did... if you see the teslafi chart, you can see there is (1) 100% charge there, that is 309 miles (actually, 308.73 miles, on 10/04).
 

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
567
Germany
I actually did... if you see the teslafi chart, you can see there is (1) 100% charge there, that is 309 miles (actually, 308.73 miles, on 10/04).
This was yesterday? I only saw a 90% on the 4th. Maybe I am missing something, I am on mobile. It would be interested not you can get a hold of OBD II adapter+ cable. Would be interested to see how much kWh you have. Or you can drive at rated consumption of 245 Wh non stop and see how far you can go:)
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
This was yesterday? I only saw a 90% on the 4th. Maybe I am missing something, I am on mobile. It would be interested not you can get a hold of OBD II adapter+ cable. Would be interested to see how much kWh you have. Or you can drive at rated consumption of 245 Wh non stop and see how far you can go:)

I just checked it again (the picture in the first post). I charged to 100% recently "just to see" since the car still reports my 90% as either 278 or 279. On 10/04 the charge is 100% and shows 308.73 on teslafi. In the car, it showed "309" when I got in it that morning.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,602
3,271
Maine
I think it may be useful to document the charging strategies of people that have had zero deg to see if there really are unicorns or whether there is a strategy that may reduce deg. I charge to 75 to 80% deg, plug-in all the time, and have a 30 mile r/t commute. No deg. Never charge to 100%, and only supercharge every once in a while.
 
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skatefriday

Member
Oct 1, 2019
69
42
Los Angeles
I just checked it again (the picture in the first post). I charged to 100% recently "just to see" since the car still reports my 90% as either 278 or 279. On 10/04 the charge is 100% and shows 308.73 on teslafi. In the car, it showed "309" when I got in it that morning.

TeslaFi is using the Tesla API which does indeed show more significant digits than the Tesla App.

My 7 day old SR+ shows 213 in the app at 90% charge, but if you ask the car directly it will tell you 212.67. The app rounds up. Note that at an advertised 240 miles of range I should be at 216 miles. Live and learn. I would have asked for a super charge to 90% at delivery and then agitated for a swap had I known I was going to get a car on the low side of the claimed battery capacity.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
TeslaFi is using the Tesla API which does indeed show more significant digits than the Tesla App.

My 7 day old SR+ shows 213 in the app at 90% charge, but if you ask the car directly it will tell you 212.67. The app rounds up. Note that at an advertised 240 miles of range I should be at 216 miles. Live and learn. I would have asked for a super charge to 90% at delivery and then agitated for a swap had I known I was going to get a car on the low side of the claimed battery capacity.

This sounds exactly like how I felt when I first got the car and "only" had 306 on a full charge. If you charge to 90% every day at home (without supercharging), for a couple of weeks, it would be interesting to see what your car shows in the tesla app then.
 

VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,037
2,458
Maryland
All these posts about battery degradation for model 3s, have me convinced I must have a unicorn model 3P. I have mentioned several times that I dont have any "charging regimen" other than what is generally said in the manual and shown in the car:

1. I charge to 90% (the highest level that is shown for daily use, and not "trips")
2. I plug in my car every single time it enters my garage. This is generally once per day when I arrive home from work, but if I run errands on the weekends when I get back home, I pull into my garage, and plug in, no exceptions).
3. I only charge to 100% when I "need" to, which is generally only if I am going to go into LA or OC from where I am, which is either Temecula CA or Oceanside CA most times.
4. My commute is 80 real miles round trip daily to work and back home, which takes between 80 "car miles" to 130 "car miles" depending on weather, traffic, time of year, and how I choose to drive.

Basically, I charge to 90% and plug in, thats it.

I have over 14k miles on my battery and no RATED RANGE degradation. When I got my car in December of 2018, like many new owners, I charged to 100% in the first couple of weeks "just to check". To my abject horror, it only charged to 306 instead of 310. "OMG, this new car with less than 1k miles already has battery degradation!!!" I thought. I tried discharging to 20 percent, and charging to 100%, no change.

I tried that a couple times, and read every single battery degradation thread on here

I made an appointment with my local Tesla service center. They told me "there is nothing wrong with your car, drive it more, its not real degradation, if there is a problem with the battery, the car lights up like a xmas tree, we will know about it" . I thought "yeah right, they are just pushing me off, I want this noted that this is a problem in case it shows up later".

(NOTE: Does this pattern sound familiar to anyone? Its pretty much the exact same thing that 90% of the people in all these battery degradation threads are doing).

I was upset, scared that my new car, that I expected to have for at least 6-7 years, was already starting off with a problem that tesla wouldnt even acknowledge.

I didnt sign up for teslafi or anything like that at the time, as I thought I would just get more upset at my "never had 4 miles of range" (sounds silly typing it out now, but this is how I felt, and I am fairly certain this is also how everyone who is starting all these battery threads feels, at least in general).

I just pushed it to the back of my mind, and drove.... charging like I said above, basically never changing.

As time went on, I noticed that my 90% charge was always shown as 279... occasionally 278 but usually 279, and as I put on more and more miles It never changed. I kept reading all these battery threads, and one thing I noticed was , almost NO ONE posting on these threads was doing exactly what I was doing. Some were charging to 80% every day. Some were charging every other day. Some were living off supercharging, either because "its free" or because they have to as they have no home charging. Almost no one posting these issues with the display of range "charges to 90%, every day, plugs in every day, and just leaves it alone.

I charged to 100% a few months later to check, and, the car charged to 309 miles (which was more than delivered, per my story above). Recently, I installed teslafi, and it shows the capacity for my car is....309-310 miles, after 14,000+ miles.

See teslafi chart attached in this post.

With more time under my belt, and more information from reading all the threads, I have come to believe that the "degradation "that most are showing is just a display of rated miles, not real degradation. I have no proof of this, just anecdotal reading. I am also not saying that charging to 90% is "better" than charging to 80%. Physics and the way batteries work say thats not the case, although, I dont believe there will be much difference in the longevity of my battery vs someone who charges at 80%. Making stuff up, maybe the threshhold for 70% degradation in my car ends up being 200k miles and someone who charges to 80% daily has one of 220k miles or something.

All the research says to avoid 100% if you can and as you go down in percentage it gets better but 60% is only a little better than 70%. Anyway....

So, one of a few things is true:

1. I have a unicorn model 3, based on the number of people who are posting all the degradation stories. My car is somehow different from all of theirs.
2. Something I am doing is different from them to have my rated miles display with basically no battery loss after 14k miles.

On the off chance that number 2 is correct, I suggest that ANYONE who is "bothered" by the "loss of 3-5-10 rated miles" and is NOT "charging to 90%, every day, and not supercharging" try it for a week to 10 days, to see if it changes your display of miles. I dont actually believe that "My" car is somehow that special.
What’s your average Wh/mi consumption over the last few thousand miles?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
What’s your average Wh/mi consumption over the few thousand miles?

I have a "lifetime" trip meter that is missing the first 500-600 miles or so, as I did not know / think to set that up at the beginning. During the winter I was averaging somewhere around 310, and as the weather warmed up (and I got used to the car, and stopped "hitting it" off the line so much, lol), i got much more efficient results.

Just went out to look at it to answer your question, and my "lifetime" trip meter has 13,799 miles and consumption of 268 kWh, which I think is pretty good for a Model 3 performance with the performance pack (thus factory 20s).
 

VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,037
2,458
Maryland
I have a "lifetime" trip meter that is missing the first 500-600 miles or so, as I did not know / think to set that up at the beginning. During the winter I was averaging somewhere around 310, and as the weather warmed up (and I got used to the car, and stopped "hitting it" off the line so much, lol), i got much more efficient results.

Just went out to look at it to answer your question, and my "lifetime" trip meter has 13,799 miles and consumption of 268 kWh, which I think is pretty good for a Model 3 performance with the performance pack (thus factory 20s).
That’s not too far off from the ~242 rated consumption. There are people in other threads who have complained about degradation with average consumption around 300. Assuming the consumption readings are legit, it looks to me like Tesla started using some sort of average consumption figure to determine the remaining mileage meter value. It looks like they started doing this last spring when all the range issues began. I am obviously speculating here based on information I’ve seen in numerous threads. I doubt it has anything to do with charging habits or battery degradation for the majority of owners. I wish Tesla would let us know all the variables used to come up with this number. It might save them a number of unnecessary battery scans.
 

dmurphy

Buster: 11/25/14 - 6/20/21. So sorely missed.
Dec 7, 2018
3,625
4,843
New Jersey - Morris County
Just went out to look at it to answer your question, and my "lifetime" trip meter has 13,799 miles and consumption of 268 kWh, which I think is pretty good for a Model 3 performance with the performance pack (thus factory 20s).

Seriously, sometimes I think we’re twins! I’m also at 268 wh/mi lifetime average. Mine isn’t a performance model (Just a lowly dual motor) so I guess I’m driving a little more aggressively than I should.

That average is about to go up, somewhat significantly, since Winter is Coming ....
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
Seriously, sometimes I think we’re twins! I’m also at 268 wh/mi lifetime average. Mine isn’t a performance model (Just a lowly dual motor) so I guess I’m driving a little more aggressively than I should.

That average is about to go up, somewhat significantly, since Winter is Coming ....


white walker.jpg


;):)
 
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destructure00

Active Member
Mar 2, 2019
1,472
1,624
Scottsdale, AZ
I charge to 90% every night and it's a roll of the dice what range I wake up to. I've seen every number between 265 and 276 in the past 3 weeks...every morning could be higher or lower than the day before. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it, so I don't worry about it. I'm sure my battery is just fine. Thought about going back to showing % instead of range but it's more fun to guess what the number is going to be :)
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,482
10,647
Riverside Co. CA
I charge to 90% every night and it's a roll of the dice what range I wake up to. I've seen every number between 265 and 276 in the past 3 weeks...every morning could be higher or lower than the day before. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it, so I don't worry about it. I'm sure my battery is just fine. Thought about going back to showing % instead of range but it's more fun to guess what the number is going to be :)

Now this I find very interesting, since its the first person that I know of that charges to 905 every night, yet has a different outcome than I do. I wonder if the temperature difference between AZ and So. Cali where I am has anything to do with that? Anyway, thanks for posting!
 

destructure00

Active Member
Mar 2, 2019
1,472
1,624
Scottsdale, AZ
Now this I find very interesting, since its the first person that I know of that charges to 905 every night, yet has a different outcome than I do. I wonder if the temperature difference between AZ and So. Cali where I am has anything to do with that? Anyway, thanks for posting!

It was consistent at 279 before my last track day, which was several periods of fast discharge and short periods of recharging. Since then it's been all over the map. But I haven't done a deep discharge and recharge to 100% since then either.
 
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