i must say...if it happens this car will be cool too!

[FutureShock]

oh look Tesla Killer #1017. So far, the auto industry is 0 for 1016, but maybe this one is different ...

LOL. Harsh, but true.

Porsche basically announces a 'me too' luxury EV that won't even launch for two years (if they make their date) and which isn't backed by a nationwide fast-charging network... and we're supposed to swoon? Hmm.

I get why the clickbait media has to cream their jeans and crown most any newly announced EV as a 'Tesla-killer' (meh), but that doesn't mean that we have to buy into the hype.

I'm happy that Porsche/VW is (finally) in the EV game, the more the merrier... but they have a lot to prove still. Honest and realistic expectations should reflect that.
.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

They will produce hundreds of them....well, it will seem like that in comparison, anyway.

 

[Uncle Paul]

A Porsche of that size will compete more with the Model 3, not the Model S. WIll be more expensive, and no long distance charging.

While it looks great, most concept cars do.

By the time it comes out, Tesla will have a new Roadster to battle with the Porsche as well as a high performance version of the Model 3.

The glory of the Porsche comes from the driving experience it provides, even if at very high prices. With the world moving to auto pilot, I am not sure the future of driving excitement will be as big a differentiator as the one with the best on car sensor suite.

 

[xav-]

Porsche Mission E May Upset Tesla Model S Sales

love the lines and the look.

Just a side note by 2019 model s will be 7 years. Model s will be obviously refreshed or price will be significantly slashed. Comparing a 2019 car to a 2012 car is pretty far fetched.

Also Porsche has 0 experience building electric car and it will take more than 1 iteration before they get it, just like buying an ICE from Tesla if it existed would be a horrI le idea.

2019 is too far we need something now.. remember in 2010 model s was gonna be a super cool $50k car.. we all saw how it worked out.

Not to mention no supercharging network.

 

[lux_cars]

We already have a thread discussing the Mission-e:

Mission E to start at $85k...

 

[SMAlset]

I think it's a nice design, definitely a more sports car look, which while nice and will have it's enthusiasts, I don't think will have the same customer base as the Model S. The MS has a super sleek look but being a sedan I think will attract more buyers.

 

[FlatSix911]

We already have a thread discussing the Mission-e:

Mission E to start at $85k...

As a long time P-car owner, I can say there is no way that Porsche will meet their price target of $85K ... more like $185K
They are in a tough spot trying to maintain their current customer base and also migrate to EV power ... they see the handwriting.

Having said that, they produced the magnificent hybrid 918 ... at a price North of $850K so the market was somewhat limited.
Once they get it right, they will be successful in the market but will have to rely on the current sub-par third party charging network.

Porsche 918 Spyder - Wikipedia

 

[whitex]

Competition is great, but let's face it, without a comparable SC network none of these will ever be considered 'competition'...at least by me.

If Porsche does release the Mission E in 2019, SC is probably going the largest advantage for Tesla. With more non-Tesla EV's on the market though, the charging networks are expanding though.

The reason why Porsche it taking much longer is that their culture is to ship a finished, working product, which takes time to complete designing and thoroughly testing.

 

[whitex]

I think it's a nice design, definitely a more sports car look, which while nice and will have it's enthusiasts, I don't think will have the same customer base as the Model S. The MS has a super sleek look but being a sedan I think will attract more buyers.

Because people prefer the look of a sedan and won't buy a sedan that doesn't look like a traditional sedan?

 

[Qbenjamin]

I'll believe it when I see it, not to mention that Porsche is notorious for having a very enticing but unfulfilling list of base options.

 

[alevek]

It's not negativity it's honestly and a pragmatic view. Tesla has done most of the hard work and laid the ground work for the rest of these companies to finally catch up and they still haven't. Every single car manufacturer is still light years behind as far as range, style, and technology is concerned. Sure the Leaf looks great on paper but I still can't Supercharge it.

True that Tesla has done a great job and laid the ground work for EV development, but to think that Tesla is light years ahead is putting your head in the sand. My Bolt is way ahead of my 2014 P85D in technology and range, Supercharger? Never used it.

 

[Chaserr]

I hope it does well. I agree with FlatSix, they won't sell many cars at $88k even if they do hit that base price target, anyone that's purchased a pcar knows it'll cost at least $100k by the time you add even the basic options.

Porsche does have an advantage of a massive service cengter network where they can drop their version of superchargers. If every VW, Audi, Porsche, and lamborghini dealership has a supercharger node, they can have a solid nationwide network, with excellent local coverage (but somewhat terrible interstate travel access in general) in a shorter period of time than it took Tesla to do it from scratch.

I don't drive my pcars nearly as much as I did before I bought the Tesla, and I wasn't planning on buying another, but I will at least test drive a Mission if if makes it to production. I enjoyed the Panamera test drive but thought it was hideous and the Panamera hybrid is a joke once you've driven a Tesla, but Porsche does know how to make a luxury car that is enjoyable to drive.

I welcome the competition, it means Tesla has to work harder to sell me my next car; waiting years for backup camera lines is silly, waiting years and copunting for android auto is also silly. I don't care because there's no competition... yet. But when there is, I'll go wit the car that I like best and I currently like and own both for what they do so a combination of Porsche and Tesla's strongest points appeals to me.

 

[SMAlset]

I think it's a nice design, definitely a more sports car look, which while nice and will have it's enthusiasts, I don't think will have the same customer base as the Model S. The MS has a super sleek look but being a sedan I think will attract more buyers.

Because people prefer the look of a sedan and won't buy a sedan that doesn't look like a traditional sedan?

Huh? We're talking about a comparison between the Porsche Mission E and the Tesla Model S right? No because I believe the majority of people are more family-oriented and don't see themselves in a super sporty car like the Mission E but rather the Model S which is still very sexy...

 

[whitex]

Huh? We're talking about a comparison between the Porsche Mission E and the Tesla Model S right? No because I believe the majority of people are more family-oriented and don't see themselves in a super sporty car like the Mission E but rather the Model S which is still very sexy...

So your theory is that people will think Model S looks sexy but Mission E looks not sexy because it looks too sporty? Hmmm... Below are the two cars. I guess you could say Mission E doesn't look family-oriented enough, but then again you could say that about the Model S as well. Personally, I like the look of the Mission E and the suicide doors actually seem like more practical family-oriented functionality (easier to put in or take out out car seats or other large objects).

Just out of curiosity, what you in your mind makes a car look family oriented?

 

[VT_EE]

So your theory is that people will think Model S looks sexy but Mission E looks not sexy because it looks too sporty? Hmmm... Below are the two cars. I guess you could say Mission E doesn't look family-oriented enough, but then again you could say that about the Model S as well. Personally, I like the look of the Mission E and the suicide doors actually seem like more practical family-oriented functionality (easier to put in or take out out car seats or other large objects).

Just out of curiosity, what you in your mind makes a car look family oriented?

View attachment 251119

It would be interesting to see how the Mission E performs in a side-impact crash test. I can see the doors getting pushed completely into the passenger compartment without a vertical structural component between them.

 

[VT_EE]

People who post negative responses to this are the people who get it. The people who think the Porche Mission E is on the same playing field as Telsa are the ones who just don't get it.

The electric car is the EASY part. Anyone can build an EV. That doesn't impress me.

1. Without a long distance charging network in place, you cannot do inter-city travel in the Mission E. There are currently a grand total of TWO 800V chargers compatible with the future Mission E, both built in Berlin primarily as showpieces. Nothing can currently charge on them. And they're limited to 150 kW right now anyway. And seeing as how they're both in Berlin, they don't even assist with inter-city travel. Without the long-distance charging network, all you have is an in-city Leaf that looks better.

On a side note, I don't buy the 15-minute 80% recharge claim, either. C rate is C rate, regardless of what voltage you charge at. 300 mile range will be somewhere around 90-100 kWh capacity, similar to the Model S 100D. 350 kW charging is a C rate on the order of 3.5 to 4. Unless they have a new magical chemistry, that's going to trash the battery.

2. To build cars in volume, you have to have your own battery factory. If you want to buy 3rd-party batteries, you have the Japanese manufacturers like Panasonic, who can make a limited supply of Li-Ion cells that are using a preferred chemistry for EVs, and then you have the Chinese manufacturers who can supply more cells, but they're common chemistries that don't do well in EVs. If you need good cells in volume, you need your own factory.

3. EVs have drastically lower maintenance and repair than a comparable ICE, thus they directly impact the major revenue stream of the dealerships. Dealerships have no incentive to sell EVs since they undermine their profit. How does Porsche plan to circumvent this issue?


I haven't heard a peep out of any other auto manufacturer about how their coming EVs are going to work without addressing these three problems. Chevy's Bolt got a ton of "Tesla Killer" press, and they can build a maximum of 30K of them per year because they don't have a battery factory. I can't drive it from Houston to Dallas and back in 1 day, because they have no long-distance charging network (and on the Bolt, no fast charging capability at all). And I can't even get one in Texas, because no Chevy dealer even wants to talk to you about one.

The MIssion E is in the exact same boat until Porsche addresses these issues. So the car will (supposedly) be out in 2019 -- when are the other problems getting fixed?

Wake me up when another manufacturer actually has a comprehensive EV plan, then maybe I'll be impressed.

I can't see Porsche dealerships surviving in their current form without the revenue that comes from $700 oil changes, multi-thousand $ break jobs, etc. They will make next to nothing off EVs in service especially if Porsche keeps their high-quality standards up. In the future, dealerships will have to use high-volume sales to remain profitable. I can't see Porsche lowering their prices to allow for high volume.

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla is already pushing the maintenance contract thing, I definitely see that taking off.

$700 pcar dealer oil changes is a steal! My last 15k interval service was an engine-out oil change 3 day process, Porsche sure does know how to milk us!

 

[FlatSix911]

I can't see Porsche dealerships surviving in their current form without the revenue that comes from $700 oil changes, multi-thousand $ break jobs, etc. They will make next to nothing off EVs in service especially if Porsche keeps their high-quality standards up. In the future, dealerships will have to use high-volume sales to remain profitable. I can't see Porsche lowering their prices to allow for high volume.

Tesla is already pushing the maintenance contract thing, I definitely see that taking off. $700 pcar dealer oil changes is a steal! My last 15k interval service was an engine-out oil change 3 day process, Porsche sure does know how to milk us!

Tesla and Porsche have reached parity on pre-paid service plans ... both charge $600 to change wiper blades/key fob batteries

 

[whitex]

It would be interesting to see how the Mission E performs in a side-impact crash test. I can see the doors getting pushed completely into the passenger compartment without a vertical structural component between them.

No different than what happened when Tesla made an all glass roof and removing the support in the middle. From what I read, it didn't change the roof crash test results. The door on the Mission E can have interlocking reinforcements which can handle the load. Of course, the proof is always in the test results, for which we'll have to wait.

 

[lux_cars]

I might have read somewhere that the suicide doors won’t make it to production.

Though the can always add a b-pillar even with suicide doors like Rolls Royce does.

But then they have to also add heated umbrellas inside their door frame