I own S60 (locked 75) w/free Supercharging. Then I buy S100 and swap batteries. What happens?

[houstonian]

Not planning on doing this but found it an interesting question.

Currently own S60D (software locked 75) with unlimited supercharging. No plans to unlock the battery. If I were to buy a S100, and then decide to swap the batteries - and modify whatever suspension or structural components would be required, if any, for the S60 to accommodate the 100kw battery pack - what would happen?

Specifically:

1. I assume the battery connectors / mount points / logistics are comparable across pack size and de minimus hardware changes on the car - upgraded suspension for example - are required. Is this correct or is one looking at a massive laundry list of sub components that need upgrading as well?

2.Would Tesla care? Guessing kinda sorta, but if they're booking another sale (100D in this case), I assume they care more about that then what an end user dose to his or her property.

3a. Since supercharging runs with the car and not the owner or battery (?), I assume my S60D-but-now-100D would still be enabled for free, unlimited supercharging?

3b. Likewise I also assume my 100D-but-now-60 will not be eligible for free, unlimited supercharging.

4. How would the 100D see the 75kw-but-software-limited-to-60kw battery? Guessing it should be 60kw? Perhaps better to ask if software limits on batteries follow the battery or the vehicle?

5. Any prior reports of someone doing this or something similar?

 

[cruiserlarry]

If you can afford to buy a second Tesla, and a S100D at that, why would you tear it apart to experiment with your S60 ? You would void the warranty on both of you vehicles, in addition to being the proud owner of two expensive, possibly non-functional cars.

Most likely both cars run different software, and early indications were the 100kw battery connections are different from any of the other batteries - so there may be more than software issues to deal with. Then, of course, you have legal issues regarding registration, insurance, VIN corrections, etc. Of course, you'll still need to source any conversion parts, and Tesla may not be interested in assisting you with that for liability reasons.

I understand your questions are theoretical, but both physically and financially, I can't see how the battery swap, using a new donor vehicle, makes any sense IMHO

 

[Lee_B]

I agree. The other question is how much do u think supercharging over the course of a year will cost to make this financially feasible. U get 1000 miles free per year. How much do u think it's going to cost you for supercharging this year?

My suggestion is take the 60 if u need to go on a trip. Otherwise enjoy the 100. That only costs .02

 

[Gouldness]

This is a great question for @Btr_ftw to answer. He's redoing multiple tesla's by hand without any Tesla help. There's lots of resources for this type of thing. Jason Hughes also had some answers on what it takes to swap a 100kw battery pack saying most of the connectors are the same, maybe one tiny difference in the actual "plug".

Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

[drklain]

The pack connectors are different. Change was made in the 90kWh packs. Early 90s have the old style packs, later 90s and all,100s have the new style packs. As a result, o 60s are plug Andre play compatible (from a hardware standpoint) with a 100 kWh pack.

Pack upgrade does nothing without upgrading the car's firmware. The hackers who have successfully done pack swaps have also had to change the firmware so the car recognizes the new pack.

Assuming you (a) changed out and successfully installed 100 kWh pack connectors on your 60, (b) installed the 100 pack, and (c) were able to update the firmware to the new configuration, you still might not get FUSC as no 100Ds have it and the supercharger might have an issue when it connects to a car that says it is a 100D with a 60D VIN number. We just don't know enough yet about how that will work.

Lastly (and stating the obvious) the 100D you bought the pack from is now essentially useless. You need to do (a), (b) and (c) from above as well and that car's value is likely less than 20% of what you paid for it.

AND it is possible that Tesla service will not do any maintenance on either car and that over the air updates won't work because they are non-standard configurations.

If you have > $200K to burn like this, please consider just sending me $150K instead and I'll give you my 90D with FUSC as a thank you gift. Gets you almost what you want d, no voided warranty, non-standard configuration or anything. Only has 201 miles on it as of this morning.

 

[supratachophobia]

Not planning on doing this but found it an interesting question.

Currently own S60D (software locked 75) with unlimited supercharging. No plans to unlock the battery. If I were to buy a S100, and then decide to swap the batteries - and modify whatever suspension or structural components would be required, if any, for the S60 to accommodate the 100kw battery pack - what would happen?

Specifically:

1. I assume the battery connectors / mount points / logistics are comparable across pack size and de minimus hardware changes on the car - upgraded suspension for example - are required. Is this correct or is one looking at a massive laundry list of sub components that need upgrading as well?

2.Would Tesla care? Guessing kinda sorta, but if they're booking another sale (100D in this case), I assume they care more about that then what an end user dose to his or her property.

3a. Since supercharging runs with the car and not the owner or battery (?), I assume my S60D-but-now-100D would still be enabled for free, unlimited supercharging?

3b. Likewise I also assume my 100D-but-now-60 will not be eligible for free, unlimited supercharging.

4. How would the 100D see the 75kw-but-software-limited-to-60kw battery? Guessing it should be 60kw? Perhaps better to ask if software limits on batteries follow the battery or the vehicle?

5. Any prior reports of someone doing this or something similar?

I've been thinking about this quite a bit and I think Tesla will pull the free supercharging if you upgrade the battery. I don't think they want it out there more than it has to be. Personally, I think it's a dick move if they go that route since they won't be doing you any favors on the battery cost. But from a business perspective, I can see where it makes sense.

 

[supratachophobia]

The pack connectors are different. Change was made in the 90kWh packs. Early 90s have the old style packs, later 90s and all,100s have the new style packs. As a result, o 60s are plug Andre play compatible (from a hardware standpoint) with a 100 kWh pack.

Pack upgrade does nothing without upgrading the car's firmware. The hackers who have successfully done pack swaps have also had to change the firmware so the car recognizes the new pack.

Assuming you (a) changed out and successfully installed 100 kWh pack connectors on your 60, (b) installed the 100 pack, and (c) were able to update the firmware to the new configuration, you still might not get FUSC as no 100Ds have it and the supercharger might have an issue when it connects to a car that says it is a 100D with a 60D VIN number. We just don't know enough yet about how that will work.

Lastly (and stating the obvious) the 100D you bought the pack from is now essentially useless. You need to do (a), (b) and (c) from above as well and that car's value is likely less than 20% of what you paid for it.

AND it is possible that Tesla service will not do any maintenance on either car and that over the air updates won't work because they are non-standard configurations.

If you have > $200K to burn like this, please consider just sending me $150K instead and I'll give you my 90D with FUSC as a thank you gift. Gets you almost what you want d, no voided warranty, non-standard configuration or anything. Only has 201 miles on it as of this morning.

Packs are in fact plug and play with an adapter Tesla makes and had a part number for.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

1. I assume the battery connectors / mount points / logistics are comparable across pack size and de minimus hardware changes on the car - upgraded suspension for example - are required. Is this correct or is one looking at a massive laundry list of sub components that need upgrading as well?

Like others have said, there might be some components required. Look at wk057 tear down of the 100KWh battery. There might be something there. I presume if it's NOT the P100D, then you are set because the contactor should be the same on all the newer cars.

2.Would Tesla care? Guessing kinda sorta, but if they're booking another sale (100D in this case), I assume they care more about that then what an end user dose to his or her property.

Tesla always care. But unless you use it in nefarious ways, I doubt they would come after you. wk057 has done tons of hacks and even been public about doing so. Tesla even offered him a job at one time which he refused. I tend to agree with him on that. I won't work for a company with ethics and integrity issues. Anyways that is a discussion you can find if you search around this forum.

3a. Since supercharging runs with the car and not the owner or battery (?), I assume my S60D-but-now-100D would still be enabled for free, unlimited supercharging?

No free supercharging. If you kept the 60 firmware, then the supercharging will be free but it will stop charging after it reaches 60KWh. If you load the 100 firmware, then tesla will probably charge the account of whoever owns the 100... assuming you hacked your 60 and loaded the 100 firmware and still got it to recognize at the supercharging stations. Point is you will lose free unlimited supercharging if you fully access the 100KWh. That is how I would do it at Tesla.

3b. Likewise I also assume my 100D-but-now-60 will not be eligible for free, unlimited supercharging.

See above.

4. How would the 100D see the 75kw-but-software-limited-to-60kw battery? Guessing it should be 60kw? Perhaps better to ask if software limits on batteries follow the battery or the vehicle?

I think it will really screw the user up more. IF you kept the 100D firmware, then potentially you might run out of battery soon than you expect leaving you stranded. But to answer your question, I would think the software limits would follow the vehicle though it might throw some warnings/errors when the BMS on the battery respond with something other than 100KWh.

5. Any prior reports of someone doing this or something similar?

I doubt anyone would do such thing. The only scenario I would ponder this worth while is if someone got 2 really cheap salvaged teslas assuming the 60D still had the supercharging enable and is the only one that can be repaired enough to be safe and drivable.

 

[supratachophobia]

Like others have said, there might be some components required. Look at wk057 tear down of the 100KWh battery. There might be something there. I presume if it's NOT the P100D, then you are set because the contactor should be the same on all the newer cars.


Tesla always care. But unless you use it in nefarious ways, I doubt they would come after you. wk057 has done tons of hacks and even been public about doing so. Tesla even offered him a job at one time which he refused. I tend to agree with him on that. I won't work for a company with ethics and integrity issues. Anyways that is a discussion you can find if you search around this forum.


No free supercharging. If you kept the 60 firmware, then the supercharging will be free but it will stop charging after it reaches 60KWh. If you load the 100 firmware, then tesla will probably charge the account of whoever owns the 100... assuming you hacked your 60 and loaded the 100 firmware and still got it to recognize at the supercharging stations. Point is you will lose free unlimited supercharging if you fully access the 100KWh. That is how I would do it at Tesla.


See above.


I think it will really screw the user up more. IF you kept the 100D firmware, then potentially you might run out of battery soon than you expect leaving you stranded. But to answer your question, I would think the software limits would follow the vehicle though it might throw some warnings/errors when the BMS on the battery respond with something other than 100KWh.


I doubt anyone would do such thing. The only scenario I would ponder this worth while is if someone got 2 really cheap salvaged teslas assuming the 60D still had the supercharging enable and is the only one that can be repaired enough to be safe and drivable.

Supercharging is an option linked to VIN and defined in Toolbox I believe. It is verified on the server side when using a supercharger. I see no evidence that swapping the battery alone will cause you to only charge to 60kw since I doubt the car would even boot up properly unless you had the proper firmware defining the 100kw battery. In other words, you are talking about two separate problems here. They are not directly linked.

 

[houstonian]

Thank you, everyone for your replies - greatly appreciate the forums generosity in sharing their insight.

To add a bit more color to my original question: over the next 3-5 years, I may purchase another S for my folks while continuing to drive my S60. I do not anticipate their driving needs to require more 200m of range - a requirement I anticipate my current S60 pack being able to service. Thus the thought: if I "overbought" the battery on a new S, took delivery of the car, then requested Tesla swap the batteries between the two cars (again assuming "easy" feasibility from a technical side), what would happen to the free supercharging: does it follow the battery, or does it follow the car.

(I'd also greatly prefer to put them in a new car rather then kick over a hand-me-down.)

For right now the 60 covers me fine (and suspect an ever price-falling-upgrade-to-75 to provide more than enough range should I need it) for the time being. However, should my needs change in a few years, and if Tesla is flat out not selling new stand alone battery backs, the thought of "what happens if I overbuy a new S and swap the packs"?

If you can afford to buy a second Tesla, and a S100D at that, why would you tear it apart to experiment with your S60?

It's more along the lines if I am buying a second Tesla I would own two cars as well as the various components - i.e. two battery packs. Again assuming an "easy" ability to swap packs, would it make sense to use a new Tesla purchase as a vehicle, no pun intended, to facilitate a battery upgrade for an existing one.

 

[supratachophobia]

Thank you, everyone for your replies - greatly appreciate the forums generosity in sharing their insight.

To add a bit more color to my original question: over the next 3-5 years, I may purchase another S for my folks while continuing to drive my S60. I do not anticipate their driving needs to require more 200m of range - a requirement I anticipate my current S60 pack being able to service. Thus the thought: if I "overbought" the battery on a new S, took delivery of the car, then requested Tesla swap the batteries between the two cars (again assuming "easy" feasibility from a technical side), what would happen to the free supercharging: does it follow the battery, or does it follow the car.

(I'd also greatly prefer to put them in a new car rather then kick over a hand-me-down.)

For right now the 60 covers me fine (and suspect an ever price-falling-upgrade-to-75 to provide more than enough range should I need it) for the time being. However, should my needs change in a few years, and if Tesla is flat out not selling new stand alone battery backs, the thought of "what happens if I overbuy a new S and swap the packs"?

It's more along the lines if I am buying a second Tesla I would own two cars as well as the various components - i.e. two battery packs. Again assuming an "easy" ability to swap packs, would it make sense to use a new Tesla purchase as a vehicle, no pun intended, to facilitate a battery upgrade for an existing one.

I think your idea is fine both from a desire standpoint, as well as a technical standpoint. But you'd need Tesla to do their thing on their side if you wanted software updates to continue to work, etc. Again, you'd just be updating the vehicle configuration with the proper specs so that a firmware update will update the proper items properly.