I purchased a low mileage 2013 Model S in 2024 - ongoing log

[SloPOS]

Usually, I'm a very risk averse person. Usually.

Backstory: I go through cars like shoes. Even when I was a broke 16 year old, I always found ways to trade/barter or save for a new car on an almost yearly basis. Now that I'm in my mid 30s and have a career to lean back on, my habit of swapping out cars every year has just gotten worse. When covid hit and car prices went crazy, I sold a car for almost 10k over what I paid for it and have been using that negative equity to try out different cars I may have wanted but never felt were practical enough to have as a daily driver. I've always stuck with ICE cars, mostly smaller sports cars. When the $4k used EV tax credit was announced earlier this year, I started looking around to see what might be available and found out that my most recent car (a 2020 Mazda MX-5) had some equity in it.

Since covid, I haven't been driving much at all. The MX-5 saw fewer than 5k miles per year for the time I had it and my current drive to work is only 3 miles 3 days a week. The better half works from home full time now and I've been using our second car a lot lately since I installed a Comma.ai device in it and it's been fun seeing it drive itself. You don't often get a chance to take a risk on something as large as a car purchase, but with my current situation, even if something catastrophic happened to my car, I would still have a fallback option, so I decided to take a risk on an older used Model S vs a newer Model 3/Y.

There don't seem to be many people that have documented their experience with their used cars, other than when something major needs replacing, like a HV battery or LDU. I thought I'd get this started since I'm only a week into ownership and keep a log of my progress with the car, showing the good bad and ugly of owning a decade old battery powered car.



My 2013 Tesla Model S P85+

Original Purchase Date: July 1, 2013
My Purchase Date: June 20, 2024
Mileage at purchase: 39,220
Price: $18k after $4k tax rebate
Battery Revision: B; original battery
LDU Revision: unknown
Doorhandles: V2.5
Color: Black
Wheels: Silver Turbine (lots of curbing, unfortunately)
Features: Unlimited Supercharging, Unlimited Premium Connectivity, Tech package, Air Suspension package, 21"
VIN: 5YJSA1DP0DFP13250

To add to my bad decisions, I purchased this car sight unseen. The dealership was great about working with me to answer all the questions and send pictures of anything I asked for. I knew it had a B revision battery which apparently is less prone to failure per forum posts I found. I also knew it had fully transferrable supercharging free for life, which really attracted me to the car if I ever wanted to travel with it. The car was delivered in great condition (for the year) but needs some paint correction to get the shine back and remove the old PPF from the prior owner. The car was mixed ownership, half of it's life it was in New Jersey and the other half was in South Florida. I got pictures of the underside of the car remotely and there was no rust on the frame and only minor corrosion on some of the suspension bolts. Not bad for an 11 year old car in my opinion.

As with all things, you don't know what you don't know. Drive units didn't concern me as much when I was originally looking for the car, but while waiting for delivery, I found out about the dreaded seal failure in the LDUs. Fortunately, it seems some fixes are available now and I've already prepared a bypass kit for this weekend when I get a chance to put the car on ramps. The drive unit is silent when driving but does have a 'clunk' on hard accel or deceleration. This leads me to believe this may be the factory drive unit and the bushings are worn which makes me nervous every time I drive it. After reading through the threads, I'm almost certain I'm going to see coolant in the speed sensor, but *fingers crossed*! If not, I'll apply the fix and rest a little easier (while still stressing over a 11 year old battery). If the drive unit is good, I'm going to see if Electrified Garage can replace the subframe bushings for me.

In my week of ownership, I've noticed a few other things I'd like to get fixed. Both visor mirrors are broken; something I didn't even notice until driving into the sun a few days after delivery. I also have a weird 'whomp whomp' sound coming from the HVAC system, but everything is working great and it goes away after a few miles of driving so I'm not super concerned about it. The B-pillar fabric is sagging a bit where your elbow sits on the door frame. Not sure if I'll even worry about those since I keep my arm there and it'll likely wear again if I purchase new parts.

Other than that, the car seems to be perfect. At 20% charge, I was able to supercharge at 100kWh without issue. The suspension raises and lowers as it should and all 4 doors have functional door handles. I'm going to diagnose the LDU this weekend and will update my post on what I find. If there is water ingress, I'm not sure if I'll just apply the fix and ride it out until it dies, or have Tesla put in a new DU. The battery I'm actually less scared of, outside of being stranded. I've built lithium packs for years using the cells Tesla uses and have enough knowledge to fix individual packs if they go out. Other than that, the degradation seems minimal; estimated 100% is still around 265 miles.

 

[SloPOS]

First project with the Tesla: Large Drive Unit.
Even if I take off the speed sensor and see corrosion or liquid, I plan to do a bypass. Some says it's not worth it, but considering my unit is quite, the damage may be minimal and with a drain hole and fluid bypass, it may last quite some time.

It looks like there are a couple kits on the market that allow you to bypass part of the drive unit that tends to leak. One requires you to remove the full rear subframe, which isn't something I'm comfortable doing myself in my garage. Instead I found this kit from EV Muscle Cars and decided to take a chance on the 3D printed version of their bung. I'm pretty happy with how it came out, and even though I've ordered a stainless part, I may end up just using this ABS fitting until it fails. I plan to modify some of the steps provided from Kevin at EV Muscle cars; instead of using his rigid block off parts, I'm going to use rubber endcaps on the cut portion of the fixture and on both ends of the return line. This should be more secure (with some zip ties) than gluing in the 3d printed parts.

3d Printed ABS fitting; smoothed with Acetone vapor. This thing is hard; like I can stand on it hard (I'm 280). ABS is temp resistant to a higher temp than the coolant should ever see, so this might be a permanent fix. If not I'll have a spare metal one on hand. I'll try to get some pictures this weekend when I've got it up on ramps.

 

[LA2Naples]

100% charging showing 265 miles? That was my indicated range on my 2013 P85.....in 2013.

 

[DerbyDave]

Early batteries like yours were not sealed as well as later batteries. As I recall, the connection to the battery can be subject to corrosion and water damage. For example:

2nd Catastrophic HV Failure – Corrosion

2nd catastrophic HV failure on my 2012 S due to corrosion. 1st failure was 2016 – Tesla “remanufactured” the existing HV rather than replacing. 2nd failure was in April, with car out of warranty – again due to corrosion. Tech said it is likely to repeat. Tesla has turned hostile after many years...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[SloPOS]

100% charging showing 265 miles? That was my indicated range on my 2013 P85.....in 2013.

I've been amazed at how accurate it's been. I tend to drive like a grandma and sit anywhere from 250-320kw/m on most trips, so maybe that has something to do with it?

 

[SloPOS]

Early batteries like yours were not sealed as well as later batteries. As I recall, the connection to the battery can be subject to corrosion and water damage. For example:

2nd Catastrophic HV Failure – Corrosion

2nd catastrophic HV failure on my 2012 S due to corrosion. 1st failure was 2016 – Tesla “remanufactured” the existing HV rather than replacing. 2nd failure was in April, with car out of warranty – again due to corrosion. Tech said it is likely to repeat. Tesla has turned hostile after many years...

teslamotorsclub.com

Good to know; that seems like something that should be preventable if it's not been damaged already. I'll have to look more into the battery issues.

 

[SloPOS]

Any mods able to un-invisible my posts above ^ I'm a real boy, promise

 

[SloPOS]

LDU is dry! Unfortunately, the Florida heat has kept me from finishing the LDU coolant bypass for today so I plan to park the car and work on it later this week. Next job once this is done is new axel nuts and washers to get rid of my 'clunk' on accel and decel.

 

[No CO2]

Thanks for the write up.

For your rubber plug secured with a zip tie, is the plug exposed to coolant? Will the zip tie last the life of the car? What if the zip tie fails?

I have a 3D printer. For your ABS part that goes to the coolant line, what is "smoothed with acetone vapor"? How do I do that? Is that necessary? How does it improve the part?

How difficult was it to cut the LDU? It seems to have reduced access to get a cutter in there.

If the speed sensor was wet (congrats on a dry one!), this mod would not have helped that problem. Correct? What would have been the next step if the sensor was wet?

 

[SloPOS]

Thanks for the write up.

For your rubber plug secured with a zip tie, is the plug exposed to coolant? Will the zip tie last the life of the car? What if the zip tie fails?

Once the bypass is done, the coolant no longer flows through that part, so the plug is just to keep dust/debris out. I actually have not finished the job yet (had to order a small hacksaw for the second part (I'll try to update with pictures tomorrow), and will likely use the 3d printed adapter vs the rubber plug. I got two sizes of rubber plugs (actually chair feet) and one was just slightly too small and the one in the picture above is slightly too large. Technically, you could just fill this spot with silicone or, I've even thought of spray foam, since you're just keeping road debris out.

I have a 3D printer. For your ABS part that goes to the coolant line, what is "smoothed with acetone vapor"? How do I do that? Is that necessary? How does it improve the part?

For the ABS part, the most important part is to print it with 100% infill and make sure you don't get any lifting on the edges where the part will seat to the motor. I also used a Felpro cork/rubber gasket to make sure there weren't any leaks (sometimes the stock gasket is too crushed to be effective). The acetone vapor smoothing is really simple, but mostly cosmetic. It may add a very slight amount of structural rigidity since the layer lines are fused together more completely. You can easily vapor smooth a part by doing the following:
1. Take a mason jar or other large glass container (glass is important so you can keep track of the process as it's happening)
2. Insert a paper towel and secure it to the wall (some use tape, I use magnets on either side of the jar)
3. Pour in about a tablespoon for pure acetone (you can get it pretty cheap from Home Depot/Lowes) and allow the paper towel to fully soak it up.
4. Place your 3d printed part on to the lid of the jar and place the jar over it (upside down)
5. Allow between 30 minutes and two hours for the vapors in the paper towel to evaporate into the plastic print. After about 5 minutes you will start to see the layer lines start to meld together and the part will get shiny.
6. Remove the jar but DO NOT touch the part. It will be tacky as you've basically melted the outer layer of the part. Allow it to drive in the air (placed in front of a fan if possible) for about 30 minutes, then you should be able to touch it without leaving fingerprints (but the part will still be a little soft). Rinse the part down with water (water will essentially remove all the acetone) then allow the part to fully dry for around 24 hours.

How difficult was it to cut the LDU? It seems to have reduced access to get a cutter in there.

Not super easy but doable. I got some extended length oscillation blades that are good for metal and once I had them properly seated (I'm dumb and didn't have the blade all the way in for about the first 1/4 of the cut) it went through like butter. There's very little risk of harming the motor since there's a sizeable gap between the two parts, and it's not too hard to get a hand in there.

The harder part (the part I haven't finished yet) is removing the coolant line above the motor. I didn't have a single tool that would fit in there except a battery powered Dremel and it wasn't cutting it (pun intended). I purchased a 'close quarters' hacksaw and am going to finish the job tomorrow. If you do not remove the top tube, the coolant will just all leak out as soon as you try to fill the car (ask me how I know?).

If the speed sensor was wet (congrats on a dry one!), this mod would not have helped that problem. Correct? What would have been the next step if the sensor was wet?

If the speed sensor is wet, that's not good but not necessarily the end of the world. If corrosion hasn't set in (wet but clean), there are some guides on youtube to drill a seep hole in the bottom of the inverter housing to drain any liquid and with luck your motor will work like normal for years. If corrosion has set in, your LDU is likely not long for this world and it's probably best to replace it.

While I was getting everything ready for this job, I thought of a couple things I may try if I had found corrosion. I honestly don't know if any of these would work, and don't take responsibility for anyone trying them and ending up with bad results:

1) If you have corrosion, you need to get it out before pieces break off and get into the stator/bearings. Once you've drilled a seep hole and drained any sitting coolant, you may be able to run a chemical through the cooling system to remove the rust/corrosion that has built up, then drain it from the same hole. Most rust removers I have experience with will not mess up the copper in the LDU, but it could cause additional problems if left in (they are acids after all).

2) More intensive, but you could drop the motor out and manually clean the corrosion out of the windings. If bearing are bad, they sell kits to press in new ones and this could possibly save a motor without costing $5-6k at Tesla to get a new one. I don't know that anyone (other than whoever refrubs the motors Tesla gets) has done this, so it may not work, or may only work for a while.


Anecdotally, I've noticed that most of the seal failures are happening with motors that are kept in extreme cold weather. I'm starting to think the wear on the seal is happening when the motor isn't preheated and the seals are trying to work while frozen. If your car has been Cali owned it's whole life, you may be lucky like me (mine was in South Florida for most of it's life).

 

[Doanster1]

Also check to see if your car has the rerouted AC drain hose to prevent standing water on the battery.

 

[SloPOS]

Also check to see if your car has the rerouted AC drain hose to prevent standing water on the battery.

Appreciate the tip! I'll be taking the entire frunk area apart to install a radar within the next couple weeks so I will be checking this.

 

[SloPOS]

LDU bypass complete and the system purged air without any issues! I ended up not following the maker's directions and instead cut the top coolant pipe and just blocked it off with a rubber cap and hose clamp. No leaks so far (once the clamp was fully tightened down), fingers crossed it holds up.

Luckily everything on this car is aluminum, so the pipe was easy to cut with a hand saw. I'm not sure what kind of arms you'd need to properly remove this hose without dropping the motor, but I don't have them.

FYI: 12mm rubber/silicone end caps are the perfect size. I first tried to use a zip tie, but couldn't get it tight enough and it has a slight (drop every few minutes) leak.

 

[vcor]

Congrats on your new (used) car! With 39K miles, I expect the LDU was replaced by Tesla. Usually by 30K miles the whine from the pitted ball bearings is so extreme that owners have the motor replaced (which Tesla did for free under warranty). The replacement motor uses ceramic bearings, which do not degrade like the steel bearings did. I had my 2013 S LDU replaced in 2015.

While I don't have that 2013 S anymore, you might look into the battery pack side seals. I understand the early pack version seals degrade over time and Tesla has a new design (for old packs). You might contact service, as I think it is a job that might be left to them as I think it required removing the 1000 lb pack - not something most DIYs can handle (although a few do!). Perhaps others who know more about this can chime in.

 

[SloPOS]

I did see they have a battery resealing service for only around $500 so I will likely have them tackle that. I've got an appointment for my mcu2 wifi issues on Aug 3rd and I plan to ask them about it then.

As for my LDU it seems to be a Rev B; I thought I got a picture of the label but guess I didn't. Next time I'm under to check for leaks I'll see if I can get the date code.

 

[SloPOS]

Well today was eventful - I went for a short drive this morning and then plugged into my level 2 charger to get some juice. After a couple hours charging I went to go to the store for a quick run and as I was leaving the neighborhood, got an error, 'Coolant level low, schedule service.' Long story short, my silicone coolant cap was a little too thin and seems to have sprung a leak. I was able to grab a set of 1/2" coolant block off caps from AutoZone which are much more hearty and after two more hours of charging and some spirited driving, everything is completely dry again. I went ahead and refilled the system, purged the air and then kept an eye on the fitting the whole afternoon. I think it's completed.

I finally sat out in my car with my cellphone hotspot long enough to get all the software updates caught up. I think Tesla forgot to plug the Wifi antenna back in when they did the MCU2 upgrade because my car never sees wifi and I have to rest my phone on the dash for it to get 2 bars of signal from my hotspot just to get updates. When I take it in for service next month, I'm going to see if they'll fix that considering the upgrade was just done about a year ago.

On a lighter note, I started some upgrades/fixes on the car. One thing I never thought to check while looking at purchasing the car was the sun visors, and these first gen visors have a bad habit of breaking or, in some cases, falling out completely. My drivers' side visor was missing the entire mirror assembly and the passenger had a mirror but no cover. I was able to source a matching set of 2018+ visors and fit them in place. Regrettably, I don't have the wiring for the lighting, but I could easily run it from the occupancy sensor if I ever decide I need it. Just glad to have them looking better for now.

I also got in a new set of rear axle nuts and lock washers. I had a pretty bad 'clunk' from the rear end and after seeing all the motor mounts were intact, I figured this was the issue. When I removed the 'factory' nuts, it looked like someone else had already been in there and thrown a ton of grease at the problem, but somehow both sides were missing one of the washers. I replaced both corners, torqued to 180ft/lb and now it's nice and quiet again! Unfortunately, no pictures of that procedure, but it was really just: 1) Remove center cap from wheel, 2) Dacca-dacca the old nut off, 3) remove the old washer, 4) reinstall and torque.

I've got all of my parts to add in a front mounted radar and OpenPilot with a Comma C3X; I'm hoping to get it all installed and working before next weekend when I'll be taking a cross state trip to visit some family. If I can't have autopilot, FauxAP it is! Unfortunately, when the MCU1 died in this car, it leaked ooze everywhere, so the entire underside of the dash is coated which is exactly where I need to get in and out of. I thought I had cleaned the majority of the ooze from under the large screen, but realized today when disassembling the drivers dash that the gauge cluster must have leaked everywhere too.

Finally, rounding out the day, I received my adapter and OBD scanner along with the 'Scan my tesla' app. Loads of information in that thing, and the one thing I was most impressed with is being able to see historical charging data. The car has only had 200kw total of DC fast charging in it's life (crazy since it's unlimited free supercharging) and has only around 320 total battery cycles. I also was able to see that the pack voltage has a very low cell imbalance across the entire pack. Min to max difference of only 0.00945v @ 50% soc! I've built lithium battery packs before for projects and usually I strive for <0.1v difference when creating a pack; this balancing algo they're running is awesome.

Todo list:

Verify AC drain tube is done (I think it is considering the condensate I see coming out of the car when sitting for just a few minutes)
Grease sunroof (I really don't want this thing to fail; Gen 1 roof is glued in and apparently a real chore to replace)
Install OpenPilot equipment (woohoo self driving!)
Remove old PPF (has some scratches and is starting to haze)
Paint correct (probably just a wash, clay, single stage polish and ceramic coat)
Replace HVAC Blower motor (sounds like Dr. Zoidberg scuttling away when it's running at half speed)
Find some 19" wheels (the 21s look great, but them tire prices...)

 

[Doanster1]

Great work in a short amt of time! Someone who likes to DIY, learn, and not be afraid to try…

 

[vcor]

In case you were unaware, alcohol wipes do a great job helping with the goo cleanup when the displays leak. The MCU 2 upgrade uses new displays that will not leak. The goo was used in early cars to improve the LCD viewing angle, but technology improvements with LCD removed the need for it.

 

[SloPOS]

In case you were unaware, alcohol wipes do a great job helping with the goo cleanup when the displays leak. The MCU 2 upgrade uses new displays that will not leak. The goo was used in early cars to improve the LCD viewing angle, but technology improvements with LCD removed the need for it.

I did use some 90% to remove what I could get to, but it seems to continue to drip out slowly from somewhere deeper within the dash. Luckily, I was able to get around it and now have OpenPilot setup and working. So far, it seems to work better than my Hyundai ever did and I haven't even installed the radar unit yet. It will be nice to have automated cruise control on my trip later this week.

 

[SloPOS]

Just got back from a 320ish mile round trip and the car was pretty great. The self driving was flawless; I had my hands on the wheel less than 10% of the entire trip. I only interjected when someone else on the road was making me nervous and I wanted to have control at that moment, or in a couple of construction spots where the lines on the road were ambiguous and I wasn't trusting enough to let the car decide which lane it wanted to follow.

We had a bit of a scare on the way back; even at setting 11 the AC was barely blowing any air out. I've known the blower was making some noise, but didn't expect it to go out suddenly. After about 15 minutes of it getting pretty warm in the cabin, it coughed out some dark colored 'fluff' and started blowing perfectly again. I've got a new blower on order just to be sure we don't get stuck without AC in the middle of Florida summer.

Otherwise, the car has been perfect. I picked up a full set of weather tech floor mats from a forum member for a good deal, along with a center console that I've just completed dying black to match my interior. I'll get some pictures once I'm finished up with it and have it in the car. My next major task is to remove the frunk and inspect the drain line for the AC to make sure the recall/TSB was completed on it. I'm also going to be installing the radar in the front grille later this week/this weekend so the self driving has one more set of eyes for extra confidence. After all that, it's time for PPF removal, paint correction and ceramic coating. I think I've talked myself out of face-lifting the front of the car; these early models are more and more rare to see on the road and I've started to really like the look.