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I traded in my Model S for a Prius Prime

pkitch

Member
Mar 9, 2020
229
71
Atlanta
Sold my Model 3 this week and bought a 2016 Subaru Outback. Had a MS P85 from 2013-2016, a MS 90D from 2016-2019, and a M3 LR AWD from 2019-2021. Even though I had some service visits during my ownership of the P85, this is the car I was most satisfied with. The 90D had click-clack sounds from the suspension that Tesla said was within specs, however it ruined my experience with the car. The M3 was a true disaster. Constant high resonance noise in the cabin, even at speeds as low as 20 km/h. Extremly bad build quality, and the most unpractical car I have ever owned (my fault). According to Tesla everything was within spec. Tesla has the privilege that people by the cars no matter how bad the quality and service is, so no need for them to improve. It was a true heaven to drive the Outback coming from the M3. The Outback has good driving comfort, is much less noisy, has superior build quality, is much more practical and I can turn on the wipers without having to use the touchscreen. Back in 2014 I thought Tesla would improve their quality and fit and finish. Now I know better. And after they got involved in environmentally harmful crypto, it was an easy decision to leave Tesla.
Interesting that you list crypto environment concerns as a cause to leave your EV legacy but then choose an ICE vehicle (doesn't this also have higher tax implications also)? You obviously feel very strongly about your experience. Hoping that you'll find an option either when Tesla improve quality or other more viable (for you) EV products.
 

SilverGS

Active Member
Nov 3, 2016
1,465
757
Ontario
You have been fortunate.
Consumer Reports lists Tesla as among the least reliable brands, and has no axe to grind. Their subscribers supply the data and report the problems. The ratings vary by year and model. Certain years of Models S, X and Y are on CR's lists of the "Worst Used Cars." As for new cars, CR rates the Model S and X as "below average" for expected reliability, rates Model 3 as "average," and rates Model Y as "much worse than average". They also report that consumer satisfaction is extremely high for all the Tesla models, despite the reported problems. (These are ratings from their annual auto issue, April 2021, just out. )
The magazine ran an article a month or so ago reporting on the phenomenon that two brands stood out for fierce loyalty and consistently high satisfaction scores, despite poor reliability records and consistent complaints about certain problems -- Jeep Wrangler and Tesla. It was an interesting combination!
Very interesting points!

Count me in as one of the fortunate ones - have had one issue with my 2016.5 75D (clicking noise from front suspension - fixed under warranty). Car has been flawless otherwise and the one time I took the car in for the warranty fix of the suspension, the service was great!

I happen to be in the camp of loyal supporter with a product that is well made.:)
 

pkitch

Member
Mar 9, 2020
229
71
Atlanta
I would also have hoped that quality would have become more consistent since 2014, but I have to think that competition (and there will be a lot of EVs out there, even if they're not comparable to a Tesla) will be a good motivator going forward.
I think Tesla know they have not to date had real competition and have focused on volume at expense of quality in order to establish the market and consumer acceptance of EV vehicles as being mostly 'viable'. I think that their re-work of the Model S and X is likely their first attempt to address quality in the face of new competition in the higher price segment, hoping so at least.
 
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Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
230
257
916
I do wonder how much of Tesla’s problems are workforce/assembly problems versus engineering/design problems. Have there been comparisons of cars assembled in China v. Fremont?

our first looks at the "delivered" MYs drove us away from getting one. With all of the new offerings in the EV world, absent some significant change in quality, we likely will not look to Tesla in the future. And - it’s partly, perhaps mostly, due to quality. We also do not like the move to a more minimalist interior. I thought the MX struck a good balance, with the smaller center display. After driving a MY on a recent overnight test drive, I found the lack of any info looking forward to be distracting. A HUD or something at least for critical info. Now the yoke? I typically drive with my hand on the top center of the wheel. Ugh.
 
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pkitch

Member
Mar 9, 2020
229
71
Atlanta
I do wonder how much of Tesla’s problems are workforce/assembly problems versus engineering/design problems. Have there been comparisons of cars assembled in China v. Fremont?

our first looks at the "delivered" MYs drove us away from getting one. With all of the new offerings in the EV world, absent some significant change in quality, we likely will not look to Tesla in the future. And - it’s partly, perhaps mostly, due to quality. We also do not like the move to a more minimalist interior. I thought the MX struck a good balance, with the smaller center display. After driving a MY on a recent overnight test drive, I found the lack of any info looking forward to be distracting. A HUD or something at least for critical info. Now the yoke? I typically drive with my hand on the top center of the wheel. Ugh.
Regarding the minimalist interior it is definitely polarizing especially at first but for me now when I get back into anything ICE (partner's X2 for example), the myriad of buttons, textures and other areas to look at just seems superfluous and a bit redundant, but each to his own. I definitely would endorse a 'richer' suite of materials and am looking forward to seeing the new S and X in person but am also very interested in how practical the yoke steering 'wheel' will function in real world...
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,185
681
Cary, NC
Crypto uses energy to mine. It is a considered by many(some?) to be a slap in the face to environmental concerns. Elon alienated a few more folks with this move. Have to say, it certainly makes me pause on getting another Tesla.
I love a minimalist interior but there is a limit. The model 3 starting hitting that limit with the lack of stalk wiper control. I can't get my head around no stalks.
My model S I am completely used to but the screen is a bit of a reach so that turning or seat heaters or defrost is not ideal.
The model 3 rear seat heaters is frustrating as all get out - you have to turn climate on to get to the menu. Sometimes I am on a call (or other reasons) and voice is annoying.
 

MasterchiefTS

Member
Jan 24, 2019
57
3
Italy
Guys, Tesla has several problems, Without some doubt. The assistance is the first problem. But I think that Tesla is still a startup for some reason, they wrong yet like a startup. Toyota is a good brand, but you bought a horse compared a Tesla cars.
 

DukeofURL

Member
Apr 1, 2016
411
420
North NJ
The Prius is a reliable, well built car backed by a company that has an extensive and easily accessible dealership network; it's effectively the opposite of Tesla in some regards (namely, service). In addition, a Prius is pretty efficient, low in pollution, and a good value for commuting, especially if your commute is less highway and more city driving, and for these reasons they are popular.

Teslas, on the other hand, overlap a few of these traits (an electric car by means of being electrically powered does not produce emissions itself), but there are far more reasons to buy a Tesla and not everyones' are the same. For instance, I bought a Tesla because I wanted the fresh bleeding-edge tech that's so new it hasn't even been fully tested yet (for better or for worse), and the performance (in relation to comparable ICE cars in its price range). Whereas I do care about the environment, I do reduce, re-use, and recycle etc, this doesn't affect my car purchasing - I'm a "car guy", I've had V10s as my daily driver before.

I think this is why there's such a disconnect on this thread, as for some people a Prius suits their needs maybe even better than a Tesla. To others, it seems like a mistake as it satisfies none of the reasons they bought one.
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
207
69
NJ
The only thing my 2021 Prius Prime Limited is lacking for me is a larger battery. :)

When I bought it I had no idea just how nice EV driving would be, but now I'm hooked. Problem is, I only get 25 miles on a charge, so that's why it's Tesla time.

For anyone who isn't familiar with the latest Prime Limited, it's got a seriously huge amount of tech features. They have come a long way. To me, technology is one of the main draws of modern cars, so I think I will love this about the Tesla even more. I just wish Tesla had BSM on the mirrors, a basic HUD, Apple Play, and AM radio. I assume they will be made available in the near future. It would also be nice if they added a way to dim the sunroof. I bet they do soon. They just keep getting better and better!
 
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pkitch

Member
Mar 9, 2020
229
71
Atlanta
The only thing my 2021 Prius Prime Limited is lacking for me is a larger battery. :)

When I bought it I had no idea just how nice EV driving would be, but now I'm hooked. Problem is, I only get 25 miles on a charge, so that's why it's Tesla time.

For anyone who isn't familiar with the latest Prime Limited, it's got a seriously huge amount of tech features. They have come a long way. To me, technology is one of the main draws of modern cars, so I think I will love this about the Tesla even more. I just wish Tesla had BSM on the mirrors, a basic HUD, Apple Play, and AM radio. I assume they will be made available in the near future. It would also be nice if they added a way to dim the sunroof. I bet they do soon. They just keep getting better and better!
BSM monitoring is a non issue if you adjust your wing mirrors 'properly'. Being able to see exactly what is coming up on you with a transition from the rear view mirror easily bests a warning light. This said I understand I'll be in the minority with this perspective and so likely would be best interests for them to add a more substantial solution than the on screen warnings.
I thought I would miss the HUD from my last few Beemers and honestly wouldn't mind it being there again for Navigation directions, but otherwise do not miss it at all, hope will be the same for you. Roof glass doesn't need dimming, even in SW region it's not an issue (this from someone very pale skinned)!
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,242
15,164
New Mexico
The only thing my 2021 Prius Prime Limited is lacking for me is a larger battery. :)
This ^^ is the PHEV problem in a nutshell

People who do not mind ICE tend to not charge the PHEV and then it is just a hybrid with a subsidy.
The other people find they much prefer EV driving, and ICE mode becomes an annoyance or a dislike. Forums with PHEV owners are replete with threads discussing how they eked out another mile of EV driving, just to avoid the ICE engaging.

PHEVs are their own worse enemy because they are a constant reminder of just inferior the ICE side of the car is to the EV side. It's amazing irony, how excellent a PHEV is on paper and so much less so in ownership. This is true even for the Prius Prime, which is just about the pinnacle of PHEV.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,400
11,930
California
PHEVs are their own worse enemy because they are a constant reminder of just inferior the ICE side of the car is to the EV side. It's amazing irony, how excellent a PHEV is on paper and so much less so in ownership. This is true even for the Prius Prime, which is just about the pinnacle of PHEV.

I fundamentally disagree with this assessment.

Yes, you have to plug them in to really reap the benefits of the large battery. Yes, some people don't, but I think the incidence of this phenomenon is pretty overblown. Most people buying them seek them out, know what they're buying, and plug them in.

A ~30-40 mile PHEV is really the sweet spot for most people and should result in ~80-90% all-electric driving if it's charged every day. All the environmental benefits of electric driving without the huge carbon hit from producing a gigantic battery for a single car that, let's face it, most people very seldom use. Plus, if you want to hit the road, you just get in and drive and never even think about range or charging. These are perfect transitional vehicles until battery technology advances and costs/environmental impact of manufacturing are reduced.

We were very close to buying a Model Y and going all-electric, but I just couldn't justify the price and admit I had hesitations about having ONLY electric cars. We got a hell of a deal on a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and after 5 months of ownership I think it's the perfect complement to my Model S. 90% of the time it runs completely on electricity as an about-town runner and kid hauler, but we also have a simple, efficient ICE car for road trips if we so desire.
 

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