Perhaps it has something to do with the newness of the vehicle. I've heard many people claim that new tires use cause more energy usage. I used about 385 kW/m in my P85D for the first 5000 miles, then it dropped to about 335 and has stayed pretty constant for another 10000 miles. Although I don't feel the need to punch the accelerator quite so often as I did when the car was new, I don't think my driving habits changed that much after 5000 miles.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If you play with the Tesla range calculator, P85D needs to be at 65-70 mph at 70F (no AC/heater, torque sleep enabled, flat road, no headwind, etc) to hit the 253 mile EPA range rating with 21 inch wheels. Given the "rated" is based on EPA I suspect you would need similar conditions to hit that rating.
https://www.teslamotors.com/models
There is a 24 mile gap between 65 to 70 mph. Given aero losses are non-linear moving to 75 mph probably is even worse, but let's just use 24 miles. If I adjust temperature to 50F and turn heat on, that's another 17 miles. That's already 41 miles. Add in any winds, elevation changes, torque sleep possibly being disabled, would probably account for the rest.
https://www.teslamotors.com/models
There is a 24 mile gap between 65 to 70 mph. Given aero losses are non-linear moving to 75 mph probably is even worse, but let's just use 24 miles. If I adjust temperature to 50F and turn heat on, that's another 17 miles. That's already 41 miles. Add in any winds, elevation changes, torque sleep possibly being disabled, would probably account for the rest.
JenniferQ
Active Member
You don't need to turn on range mode to take advantage of torque sleep. It's always active. Range mode may increase it's impact. The primary benefit to range mode is reduced energy usage from HVAC, and changing the heating and cooling set points for the battery thermal control system.
I understand "Rated Range" but PLEASE explain this to me
No, "ideal range" is perfect conditions, i.e. 55 mph, 70 degrees, no heating or AC, etc... I think estimated is a Remote S app thing (based on your past 30 miles of actual driving. "Predicted" range is based on current driving.
No, "ideal range" is perfect conditions, i.e. 55 mph, 70 degrees, no heating or AC, etc... I think estimated is a Remote S app thing (based on your past 30 miles of actual driving. "Predicted" range is based on current driving.
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Panoz
Member
I can't explain your numbers (I assume going 75 was a large factor), but if this remains constant you have a 1.37 driving factor that you can depend on. So 100 statutory miles consumes 137 battery miles. I experienced a 1.42x mileage factor today in cold weather going to an airport, but did far better than that on a warmer day.
Muzzman1
Active Member
@andrew
Although you are a veteran, much more than myself. That is an inaccurate statement. Unlike my S85, where the "i" info button in the range mode option talks only about HVAC, my 85D specifically indicates that torque sleep is enabled when range mode is active.
I WISH it was always active because under light load my front motor whines when it is active, and is silent when it is not, further proving that the motor loads change when range mode is active.
From the manual page 91:
"• Range Mode If on, Model S conserves energy by limiting the power of the climate control system. Cabin heating and cooling may be less efective, but seat heaters can be used to provide warmth in colder climates. When turned on in a dual motor vehicle, torque distribution between the motors is optimized to maximize range. "
Actually, it's a double exponential, plus drivetrain and rolling resistance which seem to be almost half the total loss at 75 mph.
Regardless, 75 mph is basically the minimum speed on any interstate highway in the US.
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Turn on the AM radio. You can hear both motors. Rear motor (at least in my car) is clearly on even at low power output, and turns on/off instantly with range mode.
Ames
Member
If you have any doubts about the capability of the P__D when compared with the P85 it might be worthwhile watching the video below. Without Range Mode they are about even, but with Range Mode you get 7% more range.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Rated range is the EPA standard which is shown on the new car sticker. I think most people would intuitively expect the car to show a number reflective of that.
I do agree however it makes some sense to be able to configure a separate customized number with a Wh/mi you can fill in.
Or perhaps they should do like an ICE car and just not show it. Then everyone would assume they get that regardless of what they really get.
The trip graph does that for you whenever a destination is set, and shows the deviation between expected and real as you travel.
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Rolling Resistance is a constant and may actually reduce with speed because the tires have less time to deflect and will have less deflection due to heat build up at speed.
First my new P90D is my 2nd "S". I had a 2014 S 85 and owned it for a year. I have been through the #'s not making sense but starting to understand them.
We bought a new P90D (I understand it is about the same range as an S 85) and I do love it BUT……
Last night we charged it at home to 250 miles rated range. We took a trip in Southern California from San Clemente to Woodland Hill. 98% freeway driving Round trip was 168 miles by Mapquest AND the Tesla trip odometer.
I drove with the cruise on between 70 and 75 MPH with little to NO slowing since we left today (Saturday no traffic) at 6:30 AM. NO heavy acceleration. All cruise. Really never touched the petals for 98% of the trip.
So 168 miles and the Miles let upon conclusion was 19. So 250 rated miles and 19 left = 231 miles to go 168 miles. This will throw anyone off as to how far they can drive and plan. There is a 63 mile difference or about 1/3 more EXPECTED miles that were not attained.
I understand that freeway driving at 70-75 gets less miles, but this IS a "D" and I would not expect 63 miles difference in a trip like this. The weather was about a 55 degree average due to early morning.
So please help me understand because it seems we get NO where near the "miles" we expect on a P90D.
I must be missing something so please point it out. I understand there are probably some points I'm missing but 33%.
Thanks for an education
Scott
No way it was 55 degrees at 6:30 AM. Has been much colder in the morning as of late. There's a large difference in your range right there. The difference between 65 MPH and 75 MPH is quite large as well. In my own car, I've noticed around a 20% increase in wh/mi at 75 versus 65. Assuming that early in the morning, you likely had the heater on. The heater is the most draining accessory there is on the Tesla.
Between the car keeping the battery warm in cold temperatures, your speeding and likely use of the heater, your numbers sound about right, especially considering there are some significant elevation changes from San Clemente to Woodland Hills (know the area very well). It's mostly uphill to Woodland Hills, so that kills range. Being that you went uphill at the coldest part of the morning at 75 MPH, you probably used up most of your range on the trip there. The return trip yields far better efficiency numbers due to being downhill most of the way.
Did you have the car in Ludicrous mode? That wouldn't have helped either.
No they couldn't. The EPA determines what rated range is, and the EPA test cycle is weighted towards city driving at lower speeds. Your issue is with the EPA, not Tesla.
Compared to the EU NEDC figures the EPA numbers are positively accurate . It's so gamed nowadays in the ICE (esp. hybrid) world as to be meaningless.
The i8 is officially supposed to do 155mpg*. In reality owners are getting 35mpg* if they are lucky! (*UK gals)
I did couple longer trips (700 miles in a day) going mostly flat (MN-WI-IL). When temperatures are 50F or above, I get ~290-300 Wh/mi overall going with TACC set at ~75 mph (OK, 73 in Wisconsin to diminish the risk of an encounter with the State Troopers - quite obnoxious behavior with out-of-state drivers); this was the only time I got under the rated range line. Range mode on, 19" wheels. Best consumption seems to be at temps ~80F - at least with my P85D.
Anything below 50F your range begins to suffer. Headwind is terrible. Winter range ~450-500 Wh/mi at 75 mph. In town winter range - 500-600 Wh/mi.
My 2 cents and experience here.
Like others posting here, I emphasize: Fast (particularly over 60-65) will deplete energy, as does the HVAC, not using range mode, cold weather, etc.
Unlike what others have said: I never use EPA rated miles (they so often are not accurate). I turn them off in the controls and use percentages, which is like what other cars have (your tank is half full, not that you can maybe get x miles). I rely heavily, when traveling, on the Energy Trip feature, watching the percent that will be left when I get to the destination or the next charger. If that percentage is dropping, I have to watch it or change things or I won't make it to my destination. My opinion: you cannot drive long distances in an EV at this point in time without paying attention to your charge and consumption and without knowing where you can get energy down the road. I see us aa pioneers at this time, and we are pioneers in the sense that it is slower to fill our energy source and the stations are way farther apart than for ICE machines.
Learn to drive differently, watch the gauges, enjoy the trip, probably take longer breaks for filling energy. Change can be difficult.
Like others posting here, I emphasize: Fast (particularly over 60-65) will deplete energy, as does the HVAC, not using range mode, cold weather, etc.
Unlike what others have said: I never use EPA rated miles (they so often are not accurate). I turn them off in the controls and use percentages, which is like what other cars have (your tank is half full, not that you can maybe get x miles). I rely heavily, when traveling, on the Energy Trip feature, watching the percent that will be left when I get to the destination or the next charger. If that percentage is dropping, I have to watch it or change things or I won't make it to my destination. My opinion: you cannot drive long distances in an EV at this point in time without paying attention to your charge and consumption and without knowing where you can get energy down the road. I see us aa pioneers at this time, and we are pioneers in the sense that it is slower to fill our energy source and the stations are way farther apart than for ICE machines.
Learn to drive differently, watch the gauges, enjoy the trip, probably take longer breaks for filling energy. Change can be difficult.
I did take the 405 and did go up, but had to come back so I went down also LOL
Had the heater on 78 for the trip.
Just as thought, it is sure difficult to really get the miles advertised isn't it
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