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I want 21" Staggered Wheels for my P85

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by gimp_dad, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    I currently have a Performance MS with 21" silver wheels. The car is now over a year old and I still love it.

    But I really want the following tire/wheel setup:
    Front 245/35R21
    Rear 285/30R21
    with Michelin PS2 tires.

    I really don't like the look of the 245's from behind when the Model S is hunkered down at freeway speeds. They look lame.

    And, I don't see retrofitting the Performance Plus package as worth it, especially since you still only go up by 20mm in width for the rears at the cost of almost $10k. Besides, I am happy with the suspension right now and don't need additional stiffness for my sedan.

    That said, 21" wheels are not all that prevalent and I am having a hard time finding a set that offers 21x8.5" for the front and 21x10" for the rear. Does anyone know where I might find that combination? Also, should I be looking for 35mm or 40mm offset for that rear size?

    I would really love to get feedback from someone more knowledgeable than I am on this subject.

    And I don't want 22" rims. If I can't find a workable solution for less than ridiculous cost, I will probably just live with a 20" answer but that isn't my favorite. The 21s I have now ride great (if a little squirrely when accelerating hard out of turns).

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
     
  2. JerryNycom

    JerryNycom Member

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    I feel your pain! I really didn't want to buy NEW rims and tires AND love the dark 21's, so I bought 2 new P85+ rims from Tesla for $1100 each, which are 20mm wider, and 2 Michelin 265/35/21 PS2 tires. Tesla wanted $1030 for the tire but Tirerack.com was $540 shipped! So I spent about $3300 for brand new rear rims and tires and now have 2 spare 21's with Michelins. I know its not the best solution but I wanted the car to look stock with the little bit wider rear.
     
  3. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    #3 AMPd, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
    NVM: pss don't come in 285s
     
  4. PaceyWhitter

    PaceyWhitter Member

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    If you were willing to go with the 20" (I know you said you didn't want to) you would have a lot more tire options and could get better tires for less money. If you wanted to stay with Michelin you could get the PSS or PS3.
     
  5. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    @ PaceyWhitter I hadn't heard of PS3s. Do you know much about them? I love PS2s having used them and PS Cups on previous sports cars. From the description it sounds like they may not be what I am looking for.

    @ JerryNycom That's a pretty good solution overall. I didn't know Tesla would allow purchase of those rims (early on they told me they wouldn't). Did you have to add any offset? In theory you could put 285/30ZR21 Michelin PS2s on those rims even though I would prefer a 21x10" wheel for that config. Did you consider that tire? Should be closer to the original circumference of stock 21" performance tire/rim combo and give you a nicer looking wider tire. Who did you get to mount your new setup?
     
  6. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    @JerryNycom I like your answer. I originally wanted to do just that but was told by TM service (this was back in May) that they wouldn't offer the rear rims to me. Glad to hear that has changed. I will look into that approach. I feel the same way as you about wanting to look closer to stock. By the way, did you consider using wider tires with the 21x9.5" rims? In theory it should be possible to use the 285/30R21 Michelin PS2s on those rims even though 21x10s would be preferred.

    And did you have to add an offset? Who did the work for you?
     
  7. rbt3

    rbt3 Member

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    JerryNYcom,
    I am thinking about doing the exact same thing with my rear wheels and tires on my P85. Can you tell me what differences in handling, noise, ride, etc. you noticed when switching to this set-up. I thought the + suspension upgrade parts were overkill for me, but I like the thought of wider rear tires/wheels and switch to Pilot Sports from Continentals. Main thing I am looking for is if the rear feels more stable under hard accelerations? Thanks for your input.
     
  8. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    Having driven 3 different P+'s now, including a loaner I've had for 3 days, I'm convinced the soft rear bushings are the main cause of the floaty feel when changing lanes and the understeer on freeway on/off ramps with the standard suspension. @lolachampcar's P85 was delivered with the Pilot Sports, and he sold it and bought a P+ to get the upgraded suspension.
     
  9. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    JerryNycom, I definitely like your approach. Back in May I asked about that at the Menlo Park store and they told me that would not be allowed so I never followed up on it.

    But did you consider putting 285/30R21s on the back? The 21x9.5 rims would theoretically allow that size and the circumference should be closer to original P85 spec. If it fits, I would much prefer the extra width.

    +1 dennis. I just had a P85+ loaner today and was amazed at how much tighter the suspension was. Definitely a lot more to it than just rear tire width. I am not currently planning on going there but still feel strongly about the aesthetic value of going substantially wider on the rears.
     
  10. JerryNycom

    JerryNycom Member

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    I thought 285/30 is for a 10inch rim? Does that work? I never thought of that, I just went with the stock P85+ tire of 265/35

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ride and noise are no different to me....Handling really haven't tried to test it to compare....
     
  11. simplesolar

    simplesolar Member

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    I think even the 265 looks puny in the rear. I am going to try and fit 285 or 295 on my next rim change.
     
  12. JerryNycom

    JerryNycom Member

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    If you put 285/30 it seems the tire will not be flush with the rim right? Bubble out?
     
  13. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    According to the Michelin spec on tirerack.com the PS2 285/30R21 can mount on 9.5-10.5" width rims.
     
  14. simplesolar

    simplesolar Member

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    I am swapping down to 20" rims and I would be putting 10's in the rear. I think 11' are too wide to fit in the rear and will cause rubbing issues.
     
  15. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

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    #15 Musterion, Sep 14, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
    Should be more like 12mm, see below.

    As I understand it the P85+ has 8.5" width rims in the front and 9" (not 9.5") in the rear. The manual bears this out quoting 8.5J x 21 front and 9.0J x 21 rear (for completeness, 8.0J x 19 for 19" wheels). Offsets for all 3 types are +40mm. So 285 width tires will not fit the Tesla performance plus rims, but 275 is possible (but these have very limited choices at the proper total diameter if you want to also match tire brand with front).
     
  16. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    Musterion, thanks for the info. Too bad they are 9" width on the P+ rears. I don't know where I got the idea they were 9.5". Darn. I really like the idea of having the original rims. Maybe going to 20s is the best answer after all.
     
  17. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

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    gimp_dad, since you have the 21's already, instead of going down to 20s, you can also plus one up to 22's if you are brave enough. Here's a link to a tested fitment with staggered 22's including wheel & tire sizes (discussion there ranges from 275 up to 305 rear widths!).

    Vossen VVSCV3


    Others have done 22's if you search but this thread had some useful details on sizes.
     
  18. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    WRT suspension, I am reasonably convinced that a coil spring car with lowering springs and P+ lower a-arms would be the absolute hot ticket. Install a set of upper links to reduce the negative camber and wheels and tires to match and this would complete the package. This would give the compliance over bumps of the non+ package (small sway bars) while giving all that nice crisp support of the coil springs and lack of squishy rear associated with the softer standard bushings. I'm half tempted to do this with my wife's car but I fear that would go over like a rock cloud. "Yes honey, I know you've only had your car for two weeks but I really want to rip it apart and muck with it".
     
  19. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    Thank Musterion. For some reason I can't follow the link you reference. I think 22s would result in a little too short of a sidewall for my taste.

    If 295s can fit in the space on the rears maybe 245/40R20 front and 295/35R20 rear would work. Now *that* would finally fill out the rear wheel wells where they ought to be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    lolachampcar, there is no limit to how far you are willing to go with suspension modifications. :)

    I would be way to scared to experiment that far even though I am now ruined after driving a P85+ for a few hours during my annual service. I am really shocked by how much tighter it feels. The funny thing is that I also had a P85 loaner without air suspension which had the contis on it and it felt much more buttoned down than my P85 (with air suspension) as well. The lateral play during hard acceleration out of corners is starting to get to me a bit. Probably wouldn't even be an issue if the P85 weren't so great for its size in every other performance respect...
     
  20. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    After following some of the wheel/tire threads linked by Musterion and others I once again looked up online the TSW Nurberbrings that many have used in 20" variety and see that they now offer 21" rims. That should allow me to now do exactly what I originally wanted with 245s up front and 285s rear using Michelin PS2s. Will probably go 21x10.5 on the rear rim and 21x9 front. I have an America's Tire nearby that has helped me before and am going to check with them for the install work. I'll let everyone know what I find out.
     

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