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I want my Tesla now! How about a New Model S45/S60?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by activejustin, Nov 2, 2016.

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  1. activejustin

    activejustin Member

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    #1 activejustin, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
    I WANT MY TESLA NOW!
    You have engineered and incredible automobile in the S and I'm not looking forward to waiting a couple more years for my Model III. The current Model S with the options I want is too much of a financial stretch over the Model III for me to justify.

    End the long delay for the Model III and make a more affordable S
    No doubt the cost of each Model S is starting to come down at this point with the ramp up and manufacturing efficiencies. I know Tesla cannot substantially lower the cost of the existing Model S configurations without upsetting all those early adopters. Pretty soon you will be running through all the folks who can afford $85k for a reasonably optioned S. In order to keep your sales increasing, consider some additional model engineering to keep sales building on the S until the III arrives.

    Extend the strategy you already started with the S60/S75
    I wish Tesla would come out with a new Model S45 for $55k. Make it upgraded to a Model S60 at some point in the future for around $8k.

    Offer Daily Battery Upgrades Over the Air from 45 to 60 for Infrequent Road Trips
    I really do not need the range of the larger battery other than road trips just a few times a year. For those limited use cases, I could rent a car. However more convenient, perhaps Tesla could allow daily over the air upgrades to the full 60 battery for around $50 a day. It may cost me around $500 a year for the additional battery on the 10 or so days I am on long road trips, adding up to another $3k in income for Tesla over the 6 years I plan to own the car. When I trade it in, Tesla can upgrade the battery for nothing and resell it at a $3k-$5k higher value making up some of the difference in the lower initial price. Besides that with all the headroom between the 45 to 60 the battery should be in better condition resulting in lower warranty claims.
    No doubt there will be folks who are not so good with math that use the daily 60 upgrade 20 to 30 times per year, but still don't pay for the 60 upgrade. Resulting in substantial incremental revenue for Tesla and more than they would have received at the higher price of the 60.

    Reduce Range Anxiety by Charging the S45 to 50KWH.
    Allow S45 to charge to 50KWH and software limited to 0 miles of range at 5KWH remaining. The car would only allow you to use the range of a S45. If I get down to 0 miles of range on my S45(meaning 5KWH remaining but not included in range), I could press a button on my Tesla, pay the $50 to do a daily over the air upgrade to a S60 and drive that extra 5KWH to get to the nearest charger.
    Knowing I have that as a backup can save me from getting towed in the range limited S45 and earn some additional income for Tesla. It would also limit some of the range anxiety I might have in an S45, knowing I have a backup plan. Just like folks have a parachute when flying a Cirrus, I would have a Parachute button in my Tesla that gives me access to an emergency 5KWH already in the pack for $50. Half the cost of a tow and 100% less hassle.

    Upgrade the Standard Equipment Slightly
    Make it slightly more affordable include leather seats and satellite radio as standard.
    I love talk radio on Satellite and hard for me to justify spending an additional $2500 for Satellite radio. It's a little crazy when companies like GM include it for next to nothing. While you are at it, borrow some SpaceX engineers with good with satellite communications skills and ask them figure out how to make automotive Satellite radio work without a sunroof on the S!

    Leather seats hold up better and will increase the resale value on all Model S in the future with the general better condition of the seats at resale. I know Mercedes and BMW come with vinyl seats standard, be a step above the competition. I have a 2012 Mercedes with vinyl seats now. In my opinion, the standard seats in a BMW or Mercedes, I have owned both, are much better than what comes standard in the current S. Overcome that by offering leather as standard on the S.

    These slight option changes would put the price closer to a III for buyers, but not too close.

    Throw in a Trailer Hitch option
    Create a trailer hitch option on the S now, so that I can easily tow my bikes or the occasional light trailer. I have heard you say this will be on the III and it is something I really want. I would hope the engineering and testing are straightforward, with it already on the X with a similar frame.

    Make it up to many poor folks like me that wanted to buy a 40, but did not realize it was going away.
    I was all lined up to by an S40 several years ago, it was the only model I saw as something I could afford. I sat down and did the math, it would have been a great deal, but was gone before I put my money down.

    Avoid a Stock or Debt Offering buy upping the Cash Flow Now
    No doubt an S45 will increase Tesla revenues with just a slight hit to margin. Probably made up for by all the III buyers you can convert right now! The margin on a S45 at an average price of around $65k with options has to be better than a Model III selling at around $43k. Blow the analyst out of the water with 150k Teslas manufactured and sold in 2017, not even including the III!

    This cash flow from a slightly lower model could help alleviate some of the pressure if for some reason the Model III is slightly delayed. I know this was what you were going for when you offered the 60, but that did not go quite far enough for a penny pincher like me... Perhaps you were not ready to manufacture that many cars before, but hopefully you are ready now and can really stoke the demand with an S45/S60

    Come out with the options listed above and I will be buying now at a much higher price than waiting years from now to get my Model III! I would love to use my $1k deposit in April or March of 2017 instead of June 2018.

    I sing your praises and spread the word, many people ask me if I work for Tesla. Not sure if they are annoyed with all the Tesla talk or just think I am over enthusiastic and highly informed.

    In the near future I would prefer to talk about it with a little more first hand knowledge than from what I get reading about it online and brief test drives!

    Please think about it Tesla...
     
    • Disagree x 2
  2. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    @activejustin any reason a CPO Model S won't work for you? Someone else took the depreciation and you can save $$$.
     
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  3. HebrHmr

    HebrHmr Member

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    There is currently way more demand than supply right now.

    The 40 didn't sell:
    Tesla Kills The Entry-Level, 40 kWh Model S Citing Poor Demand

    This wouldn't be worth the effort from a business perspective. The navigation is designed to not let you run out of juice.

    An external satcom antenna was excluded for aerodynamics and cosmetic reasons. It can't communicate through a metal roof and signal was poor placing it behind the roof.

    Very few people purchase a sedan with intent to tow. My wife's 4-cyl Toyota Tacoma did not even come with a tow hitch. There is one available at Torklift Central | Torklift Central | 2012-2016 Tesla Model S EcoHitch
     
  4. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    Sadly I don't see the Model S fitting into the S40 type of market at all.
    Remember its purpose - to fund the initial production for Model ☰
    Difficult to do that if you make a cheap version of S that ends up competing with Model ☰
    The other huge gotcha - the 60 is a limited 75, so a 40 would still have a 75 pack - thats just not worth shipping at any realistic cost.
    The range would also be sub 200, another non-starter for a Model S.
    Tesla is taking the Model S further upmarket, not down - its making room for ☰ to grow into.
    Anything else is just diluting the Model S brand - its just not supposed to be cheap or "affordable".
     
    • Like x 4
  5. activejustin

    activejustin Member

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    Started with a Private Owner Buy
    I originally went to buy a private owner 2014 S85 located here in Atlanta in December of last year with 18k miles for $54k. However the owner did not tell me it had a small dent in the quarter panel and it was listed as P85 in the ad, but when on got there it was an S85 in what I would consider as rough shape for a car with only 18k miles. The interior seats and trunk area looked more worn than I expected. My mercedes with 50k miles looked new compared to the Tesla. I had the down payment and contract in hand, but with those disappointments, decided to move on to another one.

    Looked at CPOs Late Last Year and Early This Year
    Apparently December of last year was a great time to buy and since that point seems like the CPO prices went up. At that time I saw CPO P85s with low miles and the options I wanted for $55k. I kept waiting for prices to drop again, but seems to have held steady and have not found one with the options, miles, and proximity to Atlanta despite looking frequently.

    I'm someone who is very particular and has to see what I am buying if it is used. I feel comfortable buying a new car sight unseen, but used concerns me and I was not willing to fly to look at a used car. Besides from what i have seen, Tesla interiors do not seem to hold up quite as well as the European brands. I am meticulous in my car car and it would drive me nuts if I got one that was less than perfect.

    Must Have Autopilot
    I got a chance to test drive a Tesla with Autopilot and decided that was something I had to have. Looking at the Autopilot CPOs, most I have seen are outside of what I wanted to spend. In addition for whatever reason the used CPOs here in Atlanta seem to be much higher priced than those in other cities.

    If I buy new from Tesla I get the $7500 tax rebate, which you do not get with a used car. So a Tesla S45 with a theoretical price of $63k with options would be actually $56k before tax which puts it well within my range after you factor in the gas savings.
     
  6. activejustin

    activejustin Member

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    With Tesla Model S ordered tomorrow and available for delivery in six weeks, pretty sure demand is not exceeding supply at the moment. Maybe a few years ago, but not now.
    When the Tesla was initially offered it was mostly folks in the know. Now that far more everyday folks with everyday salaries are aware, no doubt there would be a market. To me having the ability to upgrade to an S60 occasionally would seal the deal. I agree that if that was not an option, it would be much less interesting to most including me.

    This is a strictly software development effort that could average $500 per year on every S60/S75 or S45/S60 sold with the smaller battery option, no change to the hardware needed. If they sell 50,000 a year that would be $1.2 Billion over 5 years or several Billion if you factor in multiple model years.
    Not sure what business you are in, but for me that sounds like a very large chunk of change and worth some software development effort. I realize the navigation is designed to not let you run out of juice, but if you were driving an S45 you would have a lot less juice to begin with. So for road trips you have to have an option to upgrade a 45, otherwise the market is probably too small to consider.

    You can put an XM antenna under any glass which would include on the back window, the dash, or any fixed side glass, no external antenna needed... Pretty sure with a little creativity, they could get it in somewhere inside and keep it reasonable hidden.

    Torklift Central only allows a 200lb tongue weight, meaning nothing heavier than a bike rack or a very light trailer. I also don't want to cut the bumper of my brand new car, let Tesla put in a integrated factory solution. The reason most people don't tow with a sedan is limited torque and weight. Pretty sure Tesla has plenty of both. If you could easily tow your boat with the family sedan, people would.
     
  7. activejustin

    activejustin Member

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    #7 activejustin, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
    In my mind a $55k car that probably sells for around $63k-$75k with options is not cheap. With competition in a few years the price of the S will need come way down or the interior quality and options included are going to need to go up. When I sit in an S I do not think, wow this should be $140k. I immediately think the inside is like your average $50k sedan, until I drive it. It drives like a $140k car.

    I do not think a S45 starting at $55k would be directly comparable to a Model III starting at $35k. I think right now there is some room for another variant that fits between the $35k start and $65 start of those respective models.

    In other brands I am not aware of anyone that cross shops cars that have that big of a difference.
    Example I walk into a dealership and ask to look at this years BMW 3 Series and compare that with last years BMW 7 series with a similar price difference to the III and the current S, probably not going to happen very frequently... The salesperson would look at you funny.

    Tesla needs to fill out there price lineup and this is one way to do it without producing another new model.

    I would say the S45 probably averaging around $63k with options would likely have a higher margin than the upcoming Model III and help fund development of the III.

    I agree it would not be cost feasible with the current 75 battery. I would say make a new S60 battery, assuming that is just taking cells out of the 75 pack to reduce the cost and weight. Previous 60 could supercharge, so no doubt a new 60 would have that same ability.

    Perhaps they do an S50 instead of S45 to get it close to 200 miles. Raise the current 60 to 65 to make a little room.
     
  8. activejustin

    activejustin Member

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    #8 activejustin, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016

    CORRECTION- My apologies to HebrHmr
    I was using the calculator on my Mac which does not have commas and misread it. Thinking about my numbers later, I took the eons it takes for Excel to load on my Mac to double check the zeros. It is $125 million per year, not $1.25 Billion... You add that up over a few model years and it is still a chunk of change.

    I work at a large corporation and report on revenue numbers in the billions frequently in my job. However I stick with Excel, SQL Server, Access and try to avoid using a calculator!
     
  9. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    I tried that in my S and it doesn't work. Tesla uses a metallic film inside the glass for the reduction of heat transfer which is probably the reason. Plus, because it's all aluminum it was difficult to find a place to attach my magnetic sirius antenna. Fortunately, I figured out that I could put a bolt in the roof rack holder and that works great for driving to and from my cabin, where's there no cell coverage, so I can listen to satellite.
     
  10. Akikiki

    Akikiki A'-Lo-HA ! y'all

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    Justin, you are just dreaming. From your perspective a 45 or 50 makes sense. Dream on, 'cause I am confident you are not going to see TM do this to a Model S.
     
  11. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Probably better chance of getting this suggestion implemented if it were submitted to Tesla Motors than by posting it here on a fan forum (where no one from Tesla will likely see it).
     
  12. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #12 sandpiper, Nov 3, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
    I'd say equal. Both are zero.

    I certainly understand why folks would want this. But it won't happen. There is really very little cost difference between an S60 and a balls-out P100D. The cost of a few kw of battery cells in effectively nothing. But putting a lower cost vehicle on the road would diminish the value of the Model S "brand", both cannibalizing and pushing down prices on the other variants, hurting profitability.

    The production cost of the vehicle is certainly going down, but that's completely irrelevant. Without any serious competition, Tesla is in the fortunate position to almost be able use monopoly pricing strategy, optimizing the price only based on the demand curve with no consideration for production cost or competition.

    With the S60, I think they've gone about as far as they can to create a lower cost vehicle. I expect, once the M3 is in production, that they will eliminate the lowest price variants of the S - perhaps even the 75. The S will become strictly top-end premium vehicle.

    Fortunately, with the new body style and new AP2.0, there will be a lot of really good CPOs hitting the market.

    I do agree with this. I think they've got some excess capacity right now. But there's no sense in reducing the price to build more cars if doing so results in lower profitability. I expect that that would be the case. And the absence of such a model implies that Tesla does as well.
     
  13. Hotlobstah

    Hotlobstah Member

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    The MS60 is the carrot(a sweet, delicious carrot;)) Tesla dangled for the M3 buyers. I took that deal and am blown away by the car at that price. I have a feeling as we get closer to the M3 launch the MS60 option is going away.
     
  14. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    • Funny x 7
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  15. demundus

    demundus Member

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    I don't fully understand the point of the thread.

    Take stock in what the current owners of the car are saying, as they are the demographic who bought the car, and will continue to buy the car. Things like tow hitches, price, battery size, XM radio... all market research, calculated decisions, that paid off.

    Wait for a CPO Tesla with the things you want in your price range, or don't. Tesla isn't lowering the price of the S with the 3 coming. The re-dux of the S60 was as close as you'll get... I almost traded my 85 for one.
     
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  16. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    I'm sure that once the Model ☰ releases, maybe even before release, the 60kW Model S will disappear and the real base S will be the 75.
    Once they start producing the 100k pack in volume the 90 will go as well.
    As they are looking to simplify manufacturing, I would also assume that the current 75k pack will give way to a lower capacity version of the 100k pack. - Rather than have two completely different pack build types.
    I remember reading that Elon said the Model S was complicated to build - it was their first designed from scratch car, so anything to simplify the build will be looked at to increase line speed.
    All of that points to Model S going further upmarket - not down.
    Sorry
     
  17. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

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    The S40 didn't work 4 years ago, why would it work now? In addition to lowering prices even further they should also make leather standard? This would barely put a dent in amount of capital Tesla needs to raise for Model 3 production. If you haven't noticed, Tesla needs fat margins on low volume until the model 3.

    The base S has stayed in the same price bracket since the beginning and in fact, it's cheaper and better equipped than it was 4 years ago. On the other hand, the top end fully loaded S is getting ludicrous at nearly $165K or nearly $180K out the door with tax, title, and registration here in California.

    Tesla believes the minimum acceptable miles for an EV to be 200 miles, this is one of the reasons of killing the 40. Once you dip below this, you'll come with ideas such as yours to alleviate the range anxiety. Dropping the X60 was probably done because real-world driving and HVAC usage would dip far below that 200 mile range in a X.
     
  18. ciparis

    ciparis gunter

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    I think the temporary trip upgrade for the battery is a great idea. Allow those charges to accrue as credit over time, and it's like a layaway plan for the 60 to 75 upgrade -- one that you get to sample as you go. Nifty.
     
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  19. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    Lol watt

    You can buy CPO 85's in the high $40,000's and low $50,000's

    Why would you want a 40 or 60 for $55k when you can get an 85 for less
     
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  20. Swissmoneychf

    Swissmoneychf Member

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    I hope that it will never happen. It's like saying please Porsche, make a panamera with 90 horse power for 40k... Having a car that cost me 120k and looks exactly the same as a car that cost 50k, nah please just higher the prices and people who can't afford it will take the m3. It's supposed to be a "luxury car", where is the luxury when everyone can afford it ?
     
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