I was amazed by autopilot/fsd yesterday

[james_power]

Yesterday I was driving home in my model 3 with NOA turned on and was in the right hand overtaking lane. In the left lane was a series of about 4 cars. A very large lorry was the 3rd car in front and on the left

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[car] . [car] . [lorry] . [car] . --->
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[me] --->
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I was travelling about 10 mph faster than the cars in the left lane.

All of a sudden my car slowed down and after a few moments a realised why. The lorry was indicating to overtake and move into my lane. It had not moved at all, but the car obviously saw the indicators and slowed down.

The reason this amazed me is that it noticed *much* quicker than I did that the lorry intended to move into my lane. There were other cars closer to me in that lane. I also didn't think it had the ability yet to observe indicator lights and predict behaviour from that (yet). Not sure if thats an FSD/NOA feature or standard autopilot though.

 

[kevuwk]

If the vehicle chose to lose over 10% of its speed to let a car pull out when it didn't need to then this could be a dangerous situation especially on a motorway. Tailbacks are generally caused by people braking when they didn't need to on a motorway which cascades back (in heavier traffic at least) to cause a tailback

 

[james_power]

If the vehicle chose to lose over 10% of its speed to let a car pull out when it didn't need to then this could be a dangerous situation especially on a motorway. Tailbacks are generally caused by people braking when they didn't need to on a motorway which cascades back (in heavier traffic at least) to cause a tailback

In this case there was plenty of space behind me so no one else had to slow down. That said I must admit that right now the system is very over protective and cautious but to be honest I like that as it gives me confidence in using it. I'm sure it's going to improve over time and allow me to grow in confidence with it.

 

[ACarneiro]

I wish people would stop slowing down for lorries to then crawl in front of them and slow dual carriageways to 55mph...

 

[Fullerene]

Tailbacks are generally caused by people braking when they didn't need to on a motorway which cascades back (in heavier traffic at least) to cause a tailback

I do try and look farrrr ahead when there's a bit of stop start and regulate my speed to even out the flow, just a matter of leaving a gap and not actually stopping at the end of the queue. If the person behind me looks impatient I try not to antagonise them with this. It's exactly what the dynamic speed limits try to achieve, however, anyone on a road with little traffic being told to slow right down often sees no reason to.

I was hoping that the Tesla Semi would enable near bumper to bumper convoys, the energy saving would be great, I assume haven't looked into the maths.

I wish people would stop slowing down for lorries to then crawl in front of them and slow dual carriageways to 55mph...

There are a few painful dual carriageways with hills near me, yes, the heavy loads really just need to sit it out rather than slowing down both lanes.

Transport for London tried to reverse this situation on the tube escalators with the pass on right protocol being switched to stand both sides enabling higher escalator passenger density and reducing the queue to join.

The tube at a standstill: why TfL stopped people walking up the escalators

I don't think this trial was as successful as hoped due to existing behaviour being hard to change, at least turning off some escalators out of peak times saves some power.

 

[MaDProFF]

I must admit I would not be happy with that, many people indicate too early, and if you slow down everytime they will think you are letting them out, which is not what you want.

But tbh I will probably try FSD but doubt I would ever use it. I never use it in my Volvo.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I will probably try FSD but doubt I would ever use it

I'd be interested to hear how you get on. For me it dramatically reduces driver workload ... I arrive far more refreshed than Old Days, and I have more capacity to Supervise ... looking for trouble in places I didn't before and further ahead/behind . Not to mention that i don't care if AP or ME detects a problem ... the two of us are better than me on my own; I have had AP slow dramatically, for slowing traffic ahead, just at the moment I glanced down at the dash for something or other. Maybe I would have looked up in time ... maybe not ... or maybe the dramatic action I then had to take would have troubled the car behind me ...

Personally speaking I have AP on whenever I am on dual carriageway, I can't see a reason not to. It aint prefect (phantom braking for example - which I counter by having foot-over-throttle "ready") ... but the occasional save, and the reduction in wear-and-tear on me, I value.

 

[Durzel]

Hang on a second, are we assuming that the car "saw" the indicators and reacted to them? Has there been any published evidence that this is part of how the system works? I can't find anything with a cursory search.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Hang on a second, are we assuming that the car "saw" the indicators and reacted to them? Has there been any published evidence that this is part of how the system works? I can't find anything with a cursory search.

My thoughts too ....

Any chance it was Phantom Braking? My car thinks that some Lorries are a threat ... when I think the gap is "the same as the last 100 similar vehicles we passed"

 

[Yev000]

I speculate that the lorry made to move and saw the tesla then moved back and the driver didn't notice, but ap slowed down.

Could be wrong. Slowing in the fast lane on other people's indicators is not safe and i dont think ap monitors that.

 

[Keeper]

I would call it marvellous that a car is able to think, act and react like a human - and this is just the beginning!

 

[MaDProFF]

I'd be interested to hear how you get on. For me it dramatically reduces driver workload ... I arrive far more refreshed than Old Days, and I have more capacity to Supervise ... looking for trouble in places I didn't before and further ahead/behind . Not to mention that i don't care if AP or ME detects a problem ... the two of us are better than me on my own; I have had AP slow dramatically, for slowing traffic ahead, just at the moment I glanced down at the dash for something or other. Maybe I would have looked up in time ... maybe not ... or maybe the dramatic action I then had to take would have troubled the car behind me ...

Personally speaking I have AP on whenever I am on dual carriageway, I can't see a reason not to. It aint prefect (phantom braking for example - which I counter by having foot-over-throttle "ready") ... but the occasional save, and the reduction in wear-and-tear on me, I value.

TBH I used to drive 75k miles a year, driving is like a 2nd nature I do not find it a problem, Although my annual mileage is far less now, I like the safety of the emergency stopping etc anti collision, as no one is perfect, but to date on my last 2 cars it has not beaten me to seeing an incident, and me hard braking at least at the same time as the auto emergency stop kicks in etc. it has certainly done it for no reason more often than I would have liked, though mostly warnings.

 

[james_power]

Hang on a second, are we assuming that the car "saw" the indicators and reacted to them? Has there been any published evidence that this is part of how the system works? I can't find anything with a cursory search.

This was most definitely not phantom breaking, it slowed gracefully and in a very controlled way. Phantom breaking is typically quite sudden and abrupt (and unpleasant). Of course I can't be 100% sure it "saw"" the indicator lights or that something else made it slow down (its an AI brain after all), but from my perspective there was nothing else visible that I could see that would be cause for it to slow down. I passed many many cars like that and it has never slowed like that before.

 

[pjuk]

Any chance it was Phantom Braking

My thoughts too. Over the past week I’ve done a number of trips back on forth from Barnet to Heathrow/Slough on the M25 and I have to say that FSD has been pretty good on 2019.28.2. Things I’ve noticed:

1. Phantom braking has been dramatically reduced. I only had it occur 1-2 times over all the trips mainly due to overtaking large/wide lorries. Before (previous firmware 2019.24.?) it was happening at least 50% of the time when passing lorries.
2. Lane change is largely a success and more aggressive.
3. ACC is not perfectly smooth. Sometimes I feel that I’m being driven by an impatient Uber driver trying to keep pace with jerky acceleration and braking. I’d rather have smoother transitions to keeping distance. Also noted that if the right hand lane stops suddenly the car will follow suit to prevent undertaking unless you manually accelerate past.
4. Auto wipers are still rubbish.
5. FSD road positioning is more central.

 

[WannabeOwner]

driving is like a 2nd nature I do not find it a problem,

I'm the same ... fewer miles than you though ... I never thought of driving as being tiring etc. and never gave a second thought to long journeys etc. so it was only through actually using AP for myself that I reached my conclusion. Will be all the more interested to hear your feedback

I have a recurring drive, been doing it for decades, leaving at 10PM to arrive home around 11:30PM, all dual carriageway except half dozen miles at each end, not much traffic to keep me alert at that time of night. I often had to fight tiredness towards the end of the journey ... that has not happened once since I had Tesla + AP (and if I did nod off then driving into the ditch would change from Most Likely to Least Likely outcome!)

to date on my last 2 cars it has not beaten me to seeing an incident,

Tesla radar gets signal back under the car-in-front from the one in front of that, and will be braking for you even if you can't see that car and the car in front doesn't react ... I've had the car move over when someone intruded into my lane in my blindspot, not sure I would have seen it. There is plenty of good "once in a blue moon" stuff in AP ... some rough edges too though.

One YouTube I found interesting was a car stopped in a queue, then hit from behind, and AP steered into adjacent lane to avoid hitting car in front. AP already knows what the surroundings are, so no need to "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" it can just get on with it.

AEB is always on of course, but a lot of the "avoidance" stuff is only active when AP engaged, hence my preference to drive with it on. Wife hates it though "I'm not in control" ... so doesn't suit everyone.

Sometimes I feel that I’m being driven by an impatient Uber driver trying to keep pace with jerky acceleration

Always surprises me that nudging TACC up by 1MPH is noticeable (the acceleration followed by the off-throttle), I can definitely do a smoother job ... and I think the car should too. The VW I had before (bought 6-ish years ago) was dreadful ... hair up behind a car alarmingly and then leap on the brakes, I knew how it behaved but passengers hated it, so I suppose "Tesla TACC is better than that" !

 

[james_power]

and if I did nod off then driving into the ditch would change from Most Likely to Least Likely outcome!

In the current software, being fast asleep but stopped in the middle of a busy motorway with my hazards on doesn't exactly make me feel very safe. Wish it could safely pull over and then put hazards on.

 

[navt]

If the vehicle chose to lose over 10% of its speed to let a car pull out when it didn't need to then this could be a dangerous situation especially on a motorway. Tailbacks are generally caused by people braking when they didn't need to on a motorway which cascades back (in heavier traffic at least) to cause a tailback

That was your takeaway from this?

 

[kevuwk]

That was your takeaway from this?

Seems quite reasonable to be honest. If you are in heavy but flowing traffic and the car keeps braking because other cars keep indicating (as you regularly see when people try to lane jump) you don't think that could be an issue?

 

[pjuk]

In the current software, being fast asleep but stopped in the middle of a busy motorway with my hazards on doesn't exactly make me feel very safe. Wish it could safely pull over and then put hazards on.

This would be great...but the EU law would have you indicate first. This actually happened to my wife a few weeks ago when we were out driving the MX. She was happily driving along using NOA and the car started beeping and getting rather angry (she didn't fall asleep!!). What she didn't realise was that pressure on the wheel was not squeezing the wheel tightly but applying rotational torque She was "banned by the car" from using FSD for the rest of the journey unless she pulled over and powered down/up the car again!

Back on topic...I'd rather have the car stop than it hit something at speed. It wouldn't take long for you to realise that you've fallen asleep with the amount of rage going on around you plus you'd be back up at motorway speed in <5s so no issues

 

[navt]

Seems quite reasonable to be honest. If you are in heavy but flowing traffic and the car keeps braking because other cars keep indicating (as you regularly see when people try to lane jump) you don't think that could be an issue?

I am not sure we can infer that AP/FSD braked on signal. AP/FSD may have detected change in direction which driver did not and took appropriate action. I too take issue with people who ride their brakes on the motorway.