I would like economy mode for my mdl 3-my thoughts/config

[dhanson865]

It sounds like you want one of these:

I'm sure it will be nice and slow for you.

But will it be as reliable as a Tesla? And can I drive it blindfolded?

I've driven a Prius and a Leaf for some time now so I'm not picky about looks but the Bolt doesn't raise the bar vs either of those. I'd rather have the Tesla based on looks.

 

[Red Sage]

For some of us, eco isn't just economy, it's ecology. I want a long-distance BEV, not a performance car. It just happens that the Model 3 will is the only planned affordable long-distance BEV so far so if I do end up buying one I'll end up with a car with acceleration and handling that I'd not pay for otherwise.

The good news is that getting a long distance BEV gives you a performance car by default. Sure, you could certainly tune a vehicle with a 60 kWh or higher capacity battery pack to the performance characteristics of a Toyota Camry LE... But you would gain exactly nothing of significance for the sacrifice in performance. The Camry is electronically limited to a 122 MPH top speed. Not half as much. Reducing the maximum acceleration of a Model ☰ to that level will not miraculously allow it to get a whole lot more range than otherwise.

Simply having an accelerator mapping that emphasizes precise control at lower power allows for greater efficiency through optimizing acceleration.

There is already precise control at lower power. The acceleration is already optimized -- to take full advantage of available power. Having 90% to 95% efficiency isn't enough?

And personally I'd like smaller wheels and wheel covers if both helped.

Smaller wheels than 18" or so, probably wouldn't fit the disc brakes & calipers. Alloy wheels will weigh less than steel ones and hubcaps, saving weight, improving handling, and extending range. Low profile tires allow you to have higher inflation pressure, lower rolling resistance, greater range, and better ecology as well, since fewer resources are needed to move you down the road.

 

[S'toon]

And you post QC, yup. You're meant to be here... I promise we won't turn you into Chum. Unless we run out of bait.

What are you coming out here for Jeff?

My cousin sent me the first couple of seasons of Portlandia DVDs. So I'm familiar with Portland's culture.

 

[JeffK]

What are you coming out here for Jeff?

Prepping for my wedding in September. Wish I could get a tax free Tesla here... hey if charging in Portland I wouldn't need an attendant to plug it in for me would I? /joking

 

[ModelNforNerd]

and what I want is different slopes at different speeds. Not just a curve but elbow bends/corners in the curve(s)

Give me sporty at 0-20 mph
give me normal at 20-50 mph
give me eco at 50+ mph

I want the gas pedal to naturally help me get away from a stop sign or red light without the person behind me to feel bothered.

I want to be able to go up the on ramp with just a slight adjustment to the pedal.

I want to be able to find neutralish glide at any steady state speed.

I want the top end to not be twitchy just because the first part of the pedal had a mean curve.

I don't want a 0-60 optimized pedal curve, I want a daily driver optimized curve.

And then the two days a year I actually want more I can go in and change it from eco mode to sport mode. (I won't be paying for insane or ludicrous modes)

I also want my ECO mode to have a much wider dead band of neutral between acceleration and regen. I want more chance to glide with 0 power going either way.

Oh and then there is Cruise Control accuracy, I want loose cruise control that can lose speed going uphill to save power usage on hills. Say -2 mph max

So we'd have

Eco - Complex pedal curve, wide dead band of no regen, 2 mph CC range
Normal - simple pedal curve, medium dead band of no regen, 1 mph CC range
Sport - steeper pedal curve, narrow dead band of no regen, 1 mph CC range
Insane - steeper pedal curve, higher power limit, narrow dead band, 1 mph CC range
Ludicrous - steeper pedal curve, max power limit, narrow dead band, 1 mph CC range

These sound like "gearbox wishes"......

 

[EaglesPDX]

It is widely expected the longer range 3 will have a 300 mile range.

That would be great but not sure it is "widely expected" and haven't seen any Musk motes suggesting 300. I'd definitely upgrade to that, especially with Musk addressing the users complaint about T3 lacking the TS's hatchback.

The S60D at 218 (same as the T3) which upgrades to a 75D at 250 with a software key is probably a better model for the T3 which would be built with the same battery (and with autopilot) to save money by standardization.

 

[jkk_]

Give me sporty at 0-20 mph
give me normal at 20-50 mph
give me eco at 50+ mph

How about overtaking? Sorry, just don't see the appeal when I can already adjust the power output by my right foot.

The S60D at 218 (same as the T3) which upgrades to a 75D at 250 with a software key is probably a better model for the T3 which would be built with the same battery (and with autopilot) to save money by standardization.

So not having enough range is better model for who? 80% of 250 is only 200 miles (you know, 80% seems to be something that you don't want to exceed while supercharging) which isn't nearly enough in bad weather. 80% of 300 would already be 240 miles which is a huge improvement.

Having a 250 mile version as a "middle option" is all fine and good. But IMHO a 300 mile (or better) version is a must.

 

[SureValla]

I love my prius but its getting older now and I need a new car. I also have more money now that when I bought it almost 10 years ago so I would like more creature comforts in my next car. This leads me to think of an entry level luxury car but unfortunately they all come with huge overbearing engines that get mid 30's at best and in most cases use premium gasoline. After driving a prius I simply cannot buy anything that doesn't come close to the 45 mpg I get.

I'm hoping the model 3 will have both that luxury feel with efficient drivetrain. I too would like an option to extend range as much as possible and am more than willing to sacrifice 0-60 speed, handling, and any other sports car type performance if that helps. I drive to work not around a nascar track.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Having a 250 mile version as a "middle option" is all fine and good. But IMHO a 300 mile (or better) version is a must.

300 mile range is certainly an option I'd choose but I'd suspect, based on the S60/S75 example of same battery and a software upgrade option 218 to 250, that is what we'll see on the economy T3.

If Tesla were to offer a 300 mile range in the T3, it would likley be via smaller motors and lower acceleration, an option I'd choose and, as we see, an option most Tesla buyers would choose.

 

[jkk_]

If Tesla were to offer a 300 mile range in the T3, it would likley be via smaller motors and lower acceleration, an option I'd choose and, as we see, an option most Tesla buyers would choose.

But that's exactly the opposite of what Tesla is doing. You get more range from bigger batteries and a side effect is better performance.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That would be great but not sure it is "widely expected" and haven't seen any Musk motes suggesting 300. I'd definitely upgrade to that, especially with Musk addressing the users complaint about T3 lacking the TS's hatchback.

The S60D at 218 (same as the T3) which upgrades to a 75D at 250 with a software key is probably a better model for the T3 which would be built with the same battery (and with autopilot) to save money by standardization.

T3 starred Arnold Schwarzenegger. Please call it the M3, Model 3, or use the stylized "3".

 

[Toyolla2]

Within the first two pages of his thread "If you had a choice: Acceleration or Distance ?" Mr Garlan Garner proposes to discuss what amounts to be centered on battery electrode chemistry optimisation. In so many words the question is whether electrode design should be tailored for high C rates to enable smaller and less expensive battery packs to support 2000 amp discharges. Sure, there are many who would like to take their car to the track and run the 1/4 mile inside 10 seconds. Sure, Tesla could supply such a pack but this is not a large market. Only 2650 roadsters. Today Tesla has better fish to fry. The relatively small pond that is the racing market should be left to Maserati, McClaren, Ferrari etc. The poll on his thread showed that the overwhelmingly large percentage (87%) would choose distance over performance. As a stockholder I would vote that way also.
However enhancing performance or range can be seen as being supply side issues that increase cost and a P90DL isn't expensive enough already ? Not for some it appears.

Tsla007 has introduced this thread dealing with more economical motoring which, if I understand correctly, is to be more about the demand side issues.
I believe that the majority of readers (87% thanks to Mr Garner) also want to hear positive feedback that could make these cars more affordable or, dare I say, less needlessly expensive.
The first slew of responders pretended to have missed the point or are deliberately poking fun. Hey fellas haven't you something better to do ?

So, as a demand side issue -when it comes to performance when is enough ENOUGH ?? And similarly with range, it is no longer 2012. We now have increasing numbers of superchargers strategically placed at increasingly remote spots. Is it not to time to revisit and reflect on what should now constitute the acceptable minimum range ?

Because I like both anachronisms and being insufferable at the same time, later on, I will also raise the focus on decisions being made in terms of energy efficiency by fitting an overly large drive unit to even the most modest version of both the current models and some figures regarding driving very fast but wanting high efficiency.

But first it is useful to consider the salient drivers for the supply side supporters and their alignment with the original Company mission statement. Otherwise known as Mr Musk's Secret Master Plan One !

One of his stated missions has been to provide compelling cars which will find their market. Well, whether they have found their market as a new segment in the automobile industry or are merely absconding with 25% of the luxo-barge market which rightly belongs to Lexus and the German marques is the question. From recent press releases from Germany we have now gotten the answer. They are seen to be definitely absconding.

Since large companies are likened to steering ships I expect nothing to start happening until at least the medium term. There is going to be no eleventh hour effort by those Teutonic Titanics that can do anything to avert the abrogation of 50% of this market, in my opinion.

For the company to grow what has to be considered is whether there exists a market of 120,000 buyers who will pay USD $100K for these cars for whatever their motivation might be. If not, Tesla has to be ready to move towards where that market might be. Hence the recent anouncement regarding the 60D. This demand lever was going to have to be pulled at some time anyway in order to attract the business that follows the elasticity between price and demand.

Until now the continuing story has been more and more sizzle which, in the meme of no TV advertising, has only served to push sales into the diminishing market at the apex of the sales triangle. My perception is that on these boards there is a vocal element that gives the impression of better track times and more range and horsepower wherein lies the Holy Grail, despite the fact that my TSLA stock has been languishing these past two hurting years. At the moment I am cool with cash flow being eaten up by R&D, but naturally I am sensitive when I hear about the development of maximum plaid whether it is true or not. But then I feel development of auto pilot is a good sacrifice against having positive cash flow whether Wall Street agrees or not.

Let us be quite clear about what Tesla does that no other auto company can do. What Tesla does is release the metaphor for freedom in the human spirit in the exact same way that the gasoline propelled vehicle has always done. It is easy to forget that the multitudes of 18650 li-ion cells within an air conditioned enclosure is what separates Tesla from any other electric vehicle on the market. Those other vehicles cannot be rapidly charged with any comparable degree of safety being as they employ large format cells which are only air cooled. You have to go no further than that.

This advantageous position should allow Tesla to explore even smaller sizes of battery and even lower power drive units without, as some say, diminishing the marque almost to the design level expected from the satanic mechanics division at Volkswagen. A Tesla with a 30Kwh battery that can take on 100 miles in 15 minutes at the charger is a better deal than a similarly equipped Nissan Leaf which will take two hours in my mind That's for range but then for power there's the question of auto pilot. I am fairly sure that autopilot will not be road testing anywhere near close to the power envelope of any Tesla being manufactured at this time....

 

[Twiglett]

yep - Tesla makes performance cars, expecting Model ☰ to be otherwise will be an exercise is disappointment

 

[eisbock]

It sounds like you want one of these:

I'm sure it will be nice and slow for you.

You joke, but this will actually be a very quick car. 0-60 in 7 seconds? That's faster than most cars out there, plus it has the added benefit of being electric, which means instant torque. You will smoke most luxury cars off the stop light with a Bolt.

Hell, the Leaf is 0-60 in over TEN seconds, yet you have little competition off the stop light and cruising around under 30mph, there's not many you won't be able to outrun.

Here's a fun article: 2016 Volt Beats Model S 85 To 30 MPH - Gas 2

Might not be a fully loaded S, but still impressive and telling all the same. Now consider the Leaf which has an even better 0-30 time than the Volt.

For any sort of driving that's not straight drag-racing, the Bolt will be shockingly impressive and you will embarrass lots of ICE drivers around town.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

You joke, but this will actually be a very quick car. 0-60 in 7 seconds? That's faster than most cars out there, plus it has the added benefit of being electric, which means instant torque. You will smoke most luxury cars off the stop light with a Bolt.

Hell, the Leaf is 0-60 in over TEN seconds, yet you have little competition off the stop light and cruising around under 30mph, there's not many you won't be able to outrun.

Here's a fun article: 2016 Volt Beats Model S 85 To 30 MPH - Gas 2

Might not be a fully loaded S, but still impressive and telling all the same. Now consider the Leaf which has an even better 0-30 time than the Volt.

For any sort of driving that's not straight drag-racing, the Bolt will be shockingly impressive and you will embarrass lots of ICE drivers around town.

But again.....

not everyone making the move to Model 3 is doing it with the #1 goal being saving the planet.

I'll admit, I'm materialistic and vain (and American...or is that redundant?)....if it looks like a toaster, I'll stay with my Audi.

It does 0-60 in the low 4's and doesn't look like it should have a knob to adjust how darkly I want my toast cooked.

So, no....no Bolt for me. And while I may not be in the overwhelming majority, I'm also not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Genshi]

Because I like both anachronisms and being insufferable at the same time, later on, I will also raise the focus on decisions being made in terms of energy efficiency by fitting an overly large drive unit to even the most modest version of both the current models and some figures regarding driving very fast but wanting high efficiency.

That whole long post was worth it for that one line.

Prepping for my wedding in September. Wish I could get a tax free Tesla here... hey if charging in Portland I wouldn't need an attendant to plug it in for me would I? /joking

Shoot me a PM with your email if you want a list of great places to eat/hang. Also let me know where yu're staying so I can tailor the recommendations to your quadrant of the city. We live in NE, so most of my first hand recommendations are SE/NE Portland, but I'm happy to recommend stuff if you aren't staying with folks who already know the area.

Congrats on the wedding by the way! Are you getting married out here? Family in the area or something?

PS: I'll happily buy your Tesla for you tax free if you deliver the price of the car to me in small unmarked bills in a brown paper bag. And let me ride in it when I turn it over to you.

My cousin sent me the first couple of seasons of Portlandia DVDs. So I'm familiar with Portland's culture.

Yeah, that show, while obviously dabbling in hyperbole, is still far more similar to our actual culture than any of us like to admit. We actually saw Carrie Brownstein at one of the breakfast places 4 blocks from our house. We tried not to be THOSE people, so we didn't bother her or ask for autographs or anything, but it was sort of amusing to find them enjoying the exact type of place they also make hopeless fun of during their show.

 

[Jayc]

Don't forget EM said that Tesla don't do slow cars and I don't expect that to ever change - that is very much a part of its brand identity. Seems like a lot of folk here who are purely after range can probably consider Nissan Leaf Gen 2 which is due out in the next couple of years. Econobox configuration for Model 3 will not happen IMO.

 

[Red Sage]

That would be great but not sure it is "widely expected" and haven't seen any Musk motes suggesting 300. I'd definitely upgrade to that, especially with Musk addressing the users complaint about T3 lacking the TS's hatchback.

OK. Make of this what you will: Elon Musk Reveals His Plan To End Tesla Range Anxiety

"The marginal utility of going from 300 to 500 miles is pretty low, and then you've got all the cost and weight of that battery pack," Musk explained. "There's a sweet spot around the 250-350 mile range, that's really ideal."​

To my mind, this means pretty much what I have said before... People claim to want a 500 mile range vehicle, but they would probably only drive it 350 miles or so at a time before stopping. Rather than carrying around so much extra capacity, it might be better to simply build a car with a 380-to-400 mile range instead. That way, a person could still have a decent 'buffer' when they stop after 350 miles to recharge. And that way, they are still within the stated 'sweet spot', though at the top end of it. Even if you simply split the difference with the sweet spot range, 300 miles of range is right there in the middle. Very early expectations were for the Model S 85 to have a range of around 320 miles at a constant 55 MPH, though that was reduced to 'only' 300 miles rather quickly. If any version of the Model ☰ can achieve that mark, it will be a definite milestone for Tesla Motors.

The S60D at 218 (same as the T3) which upgrades to a 75D at 250 with a software key is probably a better model for the T3 which would be built with the same battery (and with autopilot) to save money by standardization.

That would be nice. Even if the Model ☰ is offered with a 70 kWh battery that was software limited to 55 kWh for the base car, I think the range could be made. Then, Performance versions could perhaps have a 90 kWh to 100 kWh capacity.

 

[eisbock]

But again.....

not everyone making the move to Model 3 is doing it with the #1 goal being saving the planet.

I'll admit, I'm materialistic and vain (and American...or is that redundant?)....if it looks like a toaster, I'll stay with my Audi.

It does 0-60 in the low 4's and doesn't look like it should have a knob to adjust how darkly I want my toast cooked.

So, no....no Bolt for me. And while I may not be in the overwhelming majority, I'm also not the only one who feels this way.

Oh I'm right there with you every step of the way.

It's just that all electric-drivetrain vehicles are very quick and nothing to sneeze at, so I'm always rolling my eyes whenever somebody brings speed into the equation when they're trying to bash a shitty-looking EV.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Oh I'm right there with you every step of the way.

It's just that all electric-drivetrain vehicles are very quick and nothing to sneeze at, so I'm always rolling my eyes whenever somebody brings speed into the equation when they're trying to bash a shitty-looking EV.

Fair enough.

But if you're judging on looks AND speed.

Line up an A3 sedan, a Model 3, and a Bolt.


One of those cars does not belong in the "looks" conversation.