ICE disappointment

[Avendit]

For various reasons I've ended up with my mothers Audi TTS to look after during lockdown. Now, I've never really wanted a TT, but an Audi -S spec 3 or 4 was definitely on the spreadsheets when I chose my Model 3. So if I was was going to choose a TT, it would have been this one, probably. The -S spec cars are all badged as quick, but with out the total phycho side that the RS series have. They should, in theory, be what is compared with probably the AWD Model 3.

The TTS in current guise has 306bhp, 4wd and an audi tiptronic auto box. Claimed 4.5 - 4.2 seconds 0-60 depending who you ask.

So I was rather looking forward to taking it out the other weekend for 'a wee run' to turn the engine over and make sure the brakes were not ceasing up etc. The wee run happened to include some back roads I know quite well, after finding and setting the 'dynamic' mode.

But I was really shocked. It was utter utter pants.

• It wasn't fast. OK, I'm driving a P- which isn't really a fair comparison, but at no point, in any gear, at any speed did the TT feel quick. It didn't have more poke off the line, which I expected, but neither did it seem like it had any advantage at higher speeds, which is where the '3 starts to struggle a bit more.
• The tip tronic gearbox couldn't be coaxed into life for anything. Full auto was poor. S mode held onto gears waaaaay longer than it should of for a turbo engine, and using the flappy paddles introduced soooo much lag waiting for gears.
• The trick magnetic suspension was a bit better than my P-, but not nearly to the extent I was expecting. I never seemed to get enough speed up for it to matter either.
• The noise. Urgh. On startup the TT sounds beutiful, you think wow - that's some noise, no wonder people say they might miss it. But then you drive it around town a bit and just wish it would shut the hell up. So much noise and drama for very little progress.

I guess after all the waiting for the Model 3 I had kind of idolized the S3/4 as a solid, fast, practical and price competitive option, the top of the ICE pile, and really what I'm saying is I was wrong. Its rubbish. For all the good memories of my last lightly chipped Leon FR, or the previous ludicrously modified Celica, ICE is dead.

Long live the BEV.

 

[beansnchips]

I've not got my M3LR yet but been in and driven MS and MX a good few times. A colleague has an S3 which I ride passenger in frequently and feel the same as your comments. The amount of time it takes from wanting to 'go' to actually start going feels like forever!

 

[AshD]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head regarding the gearbox. DSG / Tiptronic / slushmatic sap the fun out of driving ICE cars.

Previously had a Golf R in manual form and i found it so much more engaging to drive than the DSG version i tried before buying.

Wife had SQ5 Plus and though serious grunt, had huge lag off the line because of the dimwitted gearbox - especially when cold.

The only ICE cars i miss over my M3P are my V8GT Esprit and 997C2S both manual.

I think the long and short of it is that if you want a really fun, engaging drive you need a manual and for easy, relaxing commute, with an occasional childish acceleration giggle, a BEV. Though i’m sure the new Roadster and especially the Lotus Evija might take a serious step forward in BEV driver engagement.

 

[Avendit]

Yea, maybe it was mostly the dsg that disappointed. Watched too many reviews where they are described as really harsh or super fast changes.

 

[Masklin]

I just went from no slouch of a Mercedes V6 twin turbo to the M3P, the latter makes the former look and feel pedestrian.

It’s just the sheer instantaneous of delivery of what the right foot is asking for, even the many large capacity bikes I’ve had over the years don’t really compare to the surge you get when you ask for it from the Model 3. I hope now to never go back to four wheeled ICE.

 

[j1mgg]

@Avendit I am guessing the burnshot rd between kirkliston and cramond would be a nice drive

 

[Doudeau]

I absolutely agree with your thoughts.

I think the need to improve the fuel consumption figures on ICE cars mean they are feeling slower over time.

I got a loan auto Audi R8 when my manual Porsche 911 was having some body work repairs. The lag when I put my foot down at 30mph was genuinely shocking. I soon found sport mode but the only difference seemed to be that it only had to change down by 1 gear rather than 2 when I tried to accelerate.

I was so pleased to get the manual 911 back where I could choose to be in the best gear and be ready to use the power when I wanted it.

A P- is several levels better than the 911 imho. If I put the effort in I would really enjoy my commute in the 911 - I don’t need to put any thought into it anymore to enjoy it.

 

[NastyNick83]

My M3P has a lot to answer for. I took my GSX-R750 motorbike out for a ride at the weekend and even that felt slow. I never thought I'd think the bike was slow.

Appreciate it's a different animal but it definitely muted the experience slightly

 

[Durzel]

I had a remapped Audi TTRS Roadster prior to the M3P. I would echo some of your points, and I don't know how much "better" the RS would be than the S, but it did make a nice sound and was very rapid, though without anywhere near the torque or urgency of the M3P. BEV power delivery makes all automatics feel super sluggish, I think.

I have no regrets changing, except perhaps a niggling thought in the back of my head that the M3P performance will be pegged at whatever SoC I happen to be on, whereas with an ICE car it's as fast as it can be all of the time, even with a near empty tank.

It's a small niggle though, and not one I've felt constrained by in the slightest. I don't miss getting rinsed by Audi for £700-£2000 every time it went in for a service either.

 

[Avendit]

@Avendit I am guessing the burnshot rd between kirkliston and cramond would be a nice drive

That is a good road, its the one a friend with a tricked out older RS4 scared the hell into me, but this wasn't. I'm up in Inverness for the excitement that is life just now, hope to be back in Edinburgh once the schools start opening.

I'm going to have a fiddle with the settings menu next time, see if I can sharpen up the DSG, but I think I'll forever regret that last ICE drive.

@Durzel - I've not experimented with low SoC's much except on long boring journeys, when does the power start getting limitted? I've noticed that after about 20% you are pretty much in forced chill mode, but does it tail off down to that, or is it a cut point?

 

[pgkevet]

You must be tiny to get in an Audi TT. I was disappointed with the whole range when i went car shopping with wife last year (who can't/wont cope with range solutions) - couldn't fit me comfortably in any audi.
My old ICE doesn't have the poke of my S (of course) but I still love driving it - its just a different approach with more anticipation and prepredness to allow for auto changes and turbo lag and still nippy enough to be fun. I don't have a need to drive like a Yahoo all the time. 26yrs old, never been re-gassed and the a/c/heater still works better than the S and as mentioned elsewhere I don't see my S on the road that far in the future.

 

[TonyP_UK]

Probably going against the grain here, but I still love getting into my Audi S5. I have a M3P and as previously said it mind blowing fast, overtaking and traffic light racing is incredible, but for a premium car build quality, service are poor. Handling in twisty bits are not as good.

Love the sound of the Audi, build quality, handling, so much so I have decided to keep it and actually do a stage 2 remap, but I am in the fortunate position that I can have both as the M3P is my company commute box.

 

[Artiste]

I still have and still enjoy driving my new model Audi A6 alongside my M3P. They are very different cars and both have their merits and disappointments.

The A6 is no slouch with 0-62 in 5.5secs, but obviously it can't compare to the M3. Even the best auto box is going to feel laggy compared to the seamless acceleration of a BEV. However, I only notice it when I'm really pushing the car - tootling around town doesn't really feel a lot different. And the performance isn't always on tap in the M3. I remember the first time I tried to floor it on a frosty morning with the battery at 30%. Needless to say nothing much happened.

But when it comes to comfort and refinement the A6 knocks the M3 into a cocked hat. Sure, the M3 is quiet up to about 30mph with no engine and not much wind and tyre noise. Above that, though, it can't begin to compare to the A6. At motorway speeds the M3 really is loud with lots of wind and tyre noise, while the A6 wafts along in near silence. The A6 also deals with potholes and bumpy roads much better than the M3. Both cars have 20" wheels and low profile tyres.

The A6 doesn't have any sort of NOA, but its adaptive cruise control is vastly superior to TACC. It's much smoother in braking and accelerating, and I haven't had a single instance of phantom braking in all the time I've owned the car. The windscreen wipers work perfectly, the sound system is much better and the matrix LED headlights are brilliant. I love the head up display, and having the virtual cockpit as well as the screen means I can actually display more information.

So in a nutshell the M3 wins hands down on performance, but the A6 wins at just about everything else.

 

[Avendit]

Probably going against the grain here, but I still love getting into my Audi S5. I have a M3P and as previously said it mind blowing fast, overtaking and traffic light racing is incredible, but for a premium car build quality, service are poor. Handling in twisty bits are not as good.

Love the sound of the Audi, build quality, handling, so much so I have decided to keep it and actually do a stage 2 remap, but I am in the fortunate position that I can have both as the M3P is my company commute box.

I'd agree there, the build on the TT is lovely, the seats are good and they have even cut down on the number of buttons and in your face grills, so its definitely a nice place to be. I think the suspension is probably much nicer, and the steering is much nicer around the centre line, but I was on fast sweeping back roads rather than little twisties so it didn't shine as much as it could have. Dynamic suspension on the 3 would be lovely I have to admit, but unlikely. The go on my P- significantly out classes the AWD suspension on it - something to be looked at one day.

Service as I experienced it had its heart in the right place, but was ultimately not that great as you say. But you do pay for your Audi service - I've not tried any paid for services from Tesla yet!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

...whereas with an ICE car it's as fast as it can be all of the time, even with a near empty tank.

I've totally lost interest in our second car which is a 365hp 335i M-Sport manual. What really brought it home was when I realised how many short trips we were doing in it (<10 miles) which meant it wasn't fully warmed up for most of the time so I couldn't use it's full potential, whereas I can get in my P3D (after preconditioning if I needed) and immediately be at warp speed if I want to.

The only thing I might miss in time is the novelty and satisfaction of working a manual 'box well, but so far I'm finding the rest of it is sufficient compensation.

 

[Masklin]

For the twisty fun aspect it's bike over car for me, so I'd happily stick with M3P for four wheels and go back to Ducati on two

 

[stonecoldrmw]

I went from a VW Passat CC 2.0 TDI to a M3P. I really enjoyed my CC. Had it for 7 years and it did me proud. But I'd been ready for a change and bought the M3P without actually having even driven it. I had driven a 2015 MS P85D in 2016 and that was the extent of my Tesla experience.

I had the CC for about 6 weeks after i took delivery of the M3P and each time i got in to the CC it was just like getting in to a giant white tank of disappointment. Conversely, after doing that, every time I got in to the M3P, it was like day 1 all over again.

The ICE car is dead.