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Icing Fines.

Evoforce

Active Member
Apr 19, 2017
1,556
1,933
Fountain Hills AZ
Rocky, pick a new target. No one should be able to park without charging at a charging station. If rules need to be changed that is what needs to be done. Charging stations need to be accessable period. I agree with you that the current rules lead to more ICEing. The point is to have or rewrite laws to stop it from happening as well as to not have to face a congestion problem.
 
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KG2V

Member
Mar 9, 2019
207
165
Bayside, NY
Rocky, it makes no sense to have super chargers or any Chargers in parking lots that have too little parking. So, obviously that policy has to change. Many more electric cars are coming on the market and the electric car Revolution is underway. When the problem is being noticed, that is when people need to take action to mitigate it. You want to use the term whining but actually it is people that are being proactive and trying to make things better and having the foresight to look for better alternatives and addressing the problems at hand.
The problem is, MOST shopping centers are built in places that have laws like "For every store, you must have N parking spots, PLUS and addition N for X square feet over Y, and you must have Z% handicapped spots"
Thing is, those numbers are usually a bit too high, and you end up with a largely empty parking lot, unless you happen to have a REALLY REALLY good group of stores (aka the top few percent of shopping areas)
So you have lots of spaces empty, even if you are barely making the legal minimum. So you flag them dual use, rather than try and go to the town board for a variance, because then they are going to want other concessions plus there are the legal fees
 
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Dr. J

Active Member
Aug 23, 2017
1,476
2,734
Fort Worth, Texas
Another couple of changes that would help:
1. Moving chargers away from store entrances, to the back of the lot. Issue: could increase installation costs due to longer runs of cable.
2. Get parking regs changed to include reserved charging spots for the parking requirement.

Hail Mary change: eliminate parking requirements and let property owners decide how many spaces they need. A lot of cities with real downtowns and dense mixed-use areas do this, but suburbs generally don't.
 
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mociaf9

Active Member
Oct 18, 2018
3,043
6,337
CA
A lot of cities with real downtowns and dense mixed-use areas do this, but suburbs generally don't.
Because in those cities and dense areas most people aren't driving their own car everywhere. They are walking, biking, cabbing, busing, subwaying, etc. Those areas can get away with way fewer parking spaces because of the density. People live very close by to their shopping and there's good enough public transport that people don't have to drive everywhere. This is emphatically not the case in the suburbs, where everyone is driving everywhere and large stores need dedicated parking or else the streets and parking would be totally unmanageable.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
7,297
8,987
Boise, ID
Let's not let Rocky derail this thread. This is about Icing Fines and how to effectively implement them to stop people from parking without charging.
...which is absolutely dependent on how spots are marked as far as who is allowed to use them for what purposes. That determines, in a legal enforcement sense, whether it is actually ICEing or not, which is why my explanations are important and on topic.
 

Evoforce

Active Member
Apr 19, 2017
1,556
1,933
Fountain Hills AZ
...which is absolutely dependent on how spots are marked as far as who is allowed to use them for what purposes. That determines, in a legal enforcement sense, whether it is actually ICEing or not, which is why my explanations are important and on topic.
No because everyone already knows that when the sign says they can park for 30 minutes it's not illegal and there won't be any icing or fines. That is already a moot point. It is a red herring to what's being discussed.
 

DaveRZ

Member
Nov 19, 2019
192
277
Murrieta, CA
One thing that MIGHT help a bit is to actually have EV charging STATIONS, in the same way you have gas stations. Meaning, instead of simple parking stalls with a charger at one end, actually make it obvious you're entering a special area that is for EV charging (like driving into a gas station). A roof over the area, well lit, and actually looks like a gas station except without pumps. This will make it far more obvious what its for. I'm not suggesting most people park at EV charging stations accidentally, but having an obvious designated area where you feel like you're in the wrong place unless you have an EV will discourage ICEing. Further, if you drive an EV and aren't charging, you won't feel right being there either. You wouldn't park at a gas pump...

Which brings me to a small general rant that I think applies: There are simply too many "special" parking spaces at malls and offices nowadays. I think this contributes to people not caring as much and being sick and tired of finding a space only to find out it's "special". Look around, you'll see:

- Handicap parking only
- In-Store pickup only parking
- Drive-up food takeout only parking
- Resident only parking
- Staff/faculty only parking
- Doctor only parking
- Green car only parking
- EV Charging only parking
- Expectant mothers only parking
- Veteran only parking
- Employee of the month parking
- Parking for specific businesses only (e.g., coffee shop only, bank only)
- ...etc...

I have no issue with any of these specifically, but it all adds to the mind-numbing BS of the day, and I understand why some people get to the point where they just don't care. High fines don't stop people from parking in handicap spaces when they aren't handicapped - they never have.
 

jordanX

Member
Aug 24, 2019
66
99
Illinois
Illinois has had a law since 2016 that says if anyone needs the spot to charge, the police must tow them and issue a ticket for $75 , no more than $100. However, many places, including my city, have interpreted the law to mean if they don't put up a sign indicating that there is an EV charger then the law doesn't apply. I have my city's response in an email and heard it from the Hampton Inn O'Fallon manager just 2 days ago ( plenty of parking). So much for trying to be proactive. The other problem is, without the signs, many ICE machine owners are oblivious/ignorant they are parking at an EV charger and the effect it has.

Colorado passed an ICE law last fall. My son has a Model 3 there and when they passed their law I checked Illinois' and was shocked to find we have one. Illinois is not very EV friendly. Incentives are long gone and they jacked up license plate fees 175%. The law took effect Jan 1, 2020 but the secretary of state extended everyone's plate expiration by a month to take advantage of the big fee increase.
 

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