Icing Fines.

[M109Rider]

I know Quebec, Vancouver, and Ontario now have laws in place to fine vehicle owners for icing charging stations, both public and private.

The fine is $125 here in Ontario.

Has anyone called the Police to have a fine carried out successfully.

I see icing from time to time here in Ontario.

Do some U.S states have a similar law. ?
I was at the Salamanca NY Supercharger on the weekend, and there were two pickups and one car icing these chargers. (This is a Casino location).
There are 8 stalls here. 3 were used, 4 were blocked, because one pickup took two spots. I took the last spot.

One pickup truck driver showed up, laughed, and took off.
Ridiculous.

 

[FFR6288]

$350 minimum fine in Arizona.

 

[M109Rider]

$350 minimum fine in Arizona.

Have any of these fines actually been given?

I just think we will continue to see icing until some fines are actually issued.

 

[YusufT]

If I recall correctly it’s kind of a grey area. Because most of the superchargers are on private properly they must be the ones calling the police for towing/ticketing purposes. Most of the time they’re not going to bother doing it unfortunately. I could be wrong

 

[fajitamondays]

$124 fine here in WA state. The catch is, the parking spot has to have signage indicating it is for EV charging only, AND there has to be green paint marking the spot. Very few charging stations have green paint here, but many "scary" signs that are mostly worthless unless there is a generous property owner willing to call a tow truck.

 

[M109Rider]

I think we have a similar problems enforcing it here.
We need Tesla to add an “Electromagnetic pulse” to sentry more, so we can handle these problems on our own.

 

[KG2V]

NY doesn't YET have fines, but the assembly just passed a bill for them

 

[ellett]

A few months back, a guy ICEd a charger in Walnut Creek (SF Bay Area) and the police towed him. I wish that was SOP everywhere.

 

[Evoforce]

In Arizona, the statute has to be actually posted. There is a reluctance of retail centers to post those and actually do anything to the offenders because they want to encourage shopping in the area above all else. Most charging locations do not have the statute posted. There was a case in Scottsdale where a Bolt owner left their car at the charger for almost a month and went on a vacation. Notices were placed on the car but it was never towed. It turned out to be someone who worked at the mall. Letters were sent to tenants to refrain from doings this. Tesla even confuses this situation by agreeing that business patrons can park at some stations for up to 30 minutes. Of course, no one is going to be able to enforce those that overstay that thirty minutes. Police are even less likely to even attempt to violate at those situations. Plus, I have yet to see any statutes posted at any of the Tesla charging locations. This is a real problem and lacks enforcement.

 

[Kabillyhop]

If by icing you mean ICE cars are parked in the charging spots, I think we need to use another term. I have seen charging stalls blocked by EV cars which are not charging much more often than ICE cars. Some EV drivers think they are entitled to park there whether they are charging or not. Something like 3% of cars are EV's and around here EV's not charging account for probably 80% of the blocked.charging stalls. The law applies to EV's too!!

 

[sduck]

This isn't model 3 related.

 

[Evoforce]

Huh???

This isn't model 3 related.

 

[Evoforce]

If by icing you mean ICE cars are parked in the charging spots, I think we need to use another term. I have seen charging stalls blocked by EV cars which are not charging much more often than ICE cars. Some EV drivers think they are entitled to park there whether they are charging or not. Something like 3% of cars are EV's and around here EV's not charging account for probably 80% of the blocked.charging stalls. The law applies to EV's too!!

Those electric car people are known as EV Holes. The gas cars are called Ice Holes.

 

[Merrill]

So far in the superchargers I have been to in California as long as the signs say general parking you will have ICING.

 

[sduck]

Huh???

Apparently the mods agreed with me.

 

[Evoforce]

Apparently the mods agreed with me.

So, someone that you responded to, had their post removed. I get it now...

 

[Rocky_H]

Tesla even confuses this situation by agreeing that business patrons can park at some stations for up to 30 minutes.

When you see those signs, it's because they don't have a choice. They are not really doing it on purpose to "confuse" anything.

I know of this from a Tesla owner who owns interests in several shopping centers in different states and has worked with Superchargers getting built at a few of his properties, so he knows this firsthand. Cities and states have statutes about how many parking spaces are required per square foot of retail area. And as a general rule, most retail developers don't put in a lot of extra parking spaces, because those don't generate revenue, like extra store space does. So they generally have just barely what they are required to have. If they put in charging stations and mark them for electric vehicle charging only, that space is now considered not allowed for customers of the retail space and is subtracted from the total. So if a 12 stall Supercharger is being put in at a mall, the property usually doesn't have 12 extra spaces they can just remove and still meet the legal parking space requirement. So their compromise with Tesla is to mark off how many they can for charging--maybe 6--and then mark the other 6 as shared for 30 minute customer parking, instead of exclusively for Tesla charging.

So no sense in whining about it. That's what they have to do to get the Superchargers built there. If Tesla demanded exclusivity for all of the spots, the malls would have to say no, and you would not have these Superchargers at all.

 

[rhumbliner]

When you see those signs, it's because they don't have a choice.

I can confirm this. I had a long conversation with the manager of a Hampton Inn with SuperChargers and he had the same explanation.

 

[Evoforce]

When you see those signs, it's because they don't have a choice. They are not really doing it on purpose to "confuse" anything.

I know of this from a Tesla owner who owns interests in several shopping centers in different states and has worked with Superchargers getting built at a few of his properties, so he knows this firsthand. Cities and states have statutes about how many parking spaces are required per square foot of retail area. And as a general rule, most retail developers don't put in a lot of extra parking spaces, because those don't generate revenue, like extra store space does. So they generally have just barely what they are required to have. If they put in charging stations and mark them for electric vehicle charging only, that space is now considered not allowed for customers of the retail space and is subtracted from the total. So if a 12 stall Supercharger is being put in at a mall, the property usually doesn't have 12 extra spaces they can just remove and still meet the legal parking space requirement. So their compromise with Tesla is to mark off how many they can for charging--maybe 6--and then mark the other 6 as shared for 30 minute customer parking, instead of exclusively for Tesla charging.

So no sense in whining about it. That's what they have to do to get the Superchargers built there. If Tesla demanded exclusivity for all of the spots, the malls would have to say no, and you would not have these Superchargers at all.

Rocky, it makes no sense to have super chargers or any Chargers in parking lots that have too little parking. So, obviously that policy has to change. Many more electric cars are coming on the market and the electric car Revolution is underway. When the problem is being noticed, that is when people need to take action to mitigate it. You want to use the term whining but actually it is people that are being proactive and trying to make things better and having the foresight to look for better alternatives and addressing the problems at hand.

 

[Rocky_H]

Rocky, it makes no sense to have super chargers or any Chargers in parking lots that have too little parking. So, obviously that policy has to change. Many more electric cars are coming on the market and the electric car Revolution is underway. When the problem is being noticed, that is when people need to take action to mitigate it. You want to use the term whining but actually it is people that are being proactive and trying to make things better and having the foresight to look for better alternatives and addressing the problems at hand.

You're not getting it. You seem to think this is like a rare one-off bad site selection. This is how shopping developments are built. It's how the vast majority of these are, like 80%-90%. So if you insist they not be this way, you get no Superchargers, as it eliminates most locations.