ID.4 Canadian pricing announced, undercuts MY LR AWD by $20k CAD :(

[tlt99]

So to summarize what I've seen, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the similarly equipped ID4 to the MY LR price is $58k vs $70k.

ID4 Pros = more comfortable ride, two screens instead of just 1, what else?
ID4 Cons = slower, poorer handling, less storage space, less range, poorer charging experience (at least for now), goofy/sluggish UI, no camp mode (?), less premium look and feel

Still that's a very aggressive price point and will certainly give pause to a lot of MY shoppers. If I hadn't purchased my MY yet I would certainly take a hard look at it for $12k savings.

 

[chachinggg]

So to summarize what I've seen, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the similarly equipped ID4 to the MY LR price is $58k vs $70k.

ID4 Pros = more comfortable ride, two screens instead of just 1, what else?
ID4 Cons = slower, poorer handling, less storage space, less range, poorer charging experience (at least for now), goofy/sluggish UI, no camp mode (?), less premium look and feel

Still that's a very aggressive price point and will certainly give pause to a lot of MY shoppers. If I hadn't purchased my MY yet I would certainly take a hard look at it for $12k savings.

Price point is quite aggressive with the ID4, with rebate and all. Too bad the MY isn't qualified for rebates. Then again I also feel like people who bought into the MY isn't exactly looking for the best value in terms of just functionality. The question becomes, if you could afford the MY, would you go for the ID4? For people who just need a reliable car to get them from point A to point B, who's environmental friendly and pro-EV, the choice is pretty clear; and the reverse is also true.

 

[patmurphey]

Wow! What a difference. id4 US first edition LR RWD is $44,000 USD, id4 Pro LR AWD is $48.200 USD, Tesla Model Y LR AWD $50,000 USD.

$7,500 credit now for id4 but Tesla credit proposals are in Congress for consideration.

 

[angus[Y]oung]

Wow! What a difference. id4 US first edition LR RWD is $44,000 USD, id4 Pro LR AWD is $48.200 USD, Tesla Model Y LR AWD $50,000 USD.

$7,500 credit now for id4 but Tesla credit proposals are in Congress for consideration.

@patmurphey again, the price difference is far more noticeable in Canada, where Tesla is charging us a noticeable premium over currency conversion: the base MY LR AWD with white paint, 19" geminis, and no FSD or towing is $69,990 CAD, which is currently the equivalent of $55,788.93 in USD (as I type this).

 

[mark95476]

Correction: Not similarly equipped.

People aren't cross-shopping MY and id.4. They're cross-shopping Tesla with Audi (etron) and other high-end brands.

id.4 will be cross-shopped with the electric Mustang, Bolt, and the new Hyundai/Kia/Genesis EVs when looking at EVs.

$58k is a good amount of money and you don't get much other than an "electric" vehicle that comes with few of the benefits. The id.4 is designed and marketed to those that won't or can't stretch for the Tesla/Audi/Porsche/BMW/...etc...

So to summarize what I've seen, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the similarly equipped ID4 to the MY LR price is $58k vs $70k.

ID4 Pros = more comfortable ride, two screens instead of just 1, what else?
ID4 Cons = slower, poorer handling, less storage space, less range, poorer charging experience (at least for now), goofy/sluggish UI, no camp mode (?), less premium look and feel

Still that's a very aggressive price point and will certainly give pause to a lot of MY shoppers. If I hadn't purchased my MY yet I would certainly take a hard look at it for $12k savings.

 

[angus[Y]oung]

Correction: Not similarly equipped.

People aren't cross-shopping MY and id.4. They're cross-shopping Tesla with Audi (etron) and other high-end brands.

id.4 will be cross-shopped with the electric Mustang, Bolt, and the new Hyundai/Kia/Genesis EVs when looking at EVs.

$58k is a good amount of money and you don't get much other than an "electric" vehicle that comes with few of the benefits. The id.4 is designed and marketed to those that won't or can't stretch for the Tesla/Audi/Porsche/BMW/...etc...

@mark95476 okay again I think there's some currency confusion here. The LR AWD ID4 well-equipped is $58k Canadian, as compared to $70k Canadian for a MY LR AWD. And I'm not sure of US pricing on the Mach-E, but in Canada, a well-equipped LR AWD (Premium with the larger battery and AWD) Mach-E costs almost exactly the same as LR AWD Mach-E, while an E-tron is significantly costlier. So I'm sure I agree with all of your cross-shopping lists.

 

[polyphonic54]

I cross-shopped a Model Y against an ID.4. Why not? Space-wise they are similar. The ID.4 is much quieter and more comfortable. Build quality is a notch or two ahead.

The Y is more fun to drive, and has the Supercharger Network.

 

[patmurphey]

Correction: Not similarly equipped.

People aren't cross-shopping MY and id.4. They're cross-shopping Tesla with Audi (etron) and other high-end brands.

id.4 will be cross-shopped with the electric Mustang, Bolt, and the new Hyundai/Kia/Genesis EVs when looking at EVs.

$58k is a good amount of money and you don't get much other than an "electric" vehicle that comes with few of the benefits. The id.4 is designed and marketed to those that won't or can't stretch for the Tesla/Audi/Porsche/BMW/...etc...

Mustang Mach E MSRP matching configurations are about $5,000 higher than Model Y here in US. Model Y is more feature rich making the Mach E slightly less desirable at $2,500 less after Federal credit. Current etron is typically over $70,000 USD here, maybe the upcoming Q4 etron might be close enough to the Model Y, unless Tesla gets back on the Federal credit deal.

 

[tempejayhawk]

I cross-shopped a Model Y against an ID.4. Why not? Space-wise they are similar. The ID.4 is much quieter and more comfortable. Build quality is a notch or two ahead.

The Y is more fun to drive, and has the Supercharger Network.

Same here. People are definitely cross-shopping Teslas with e-Tron, ID.4 and Mach-e. They each have pros and cons and they come with various differences, but they're all EVs around the same price point.

 

[tlt99]

I personally think that many people who can afford the MY would consider the ID4 to save $12,000 CAD- I know I would have. I didn't buy a Tesla for the name, sportiness or prestige, I bought it because it was the only EV with >=450km range, some towing ability, over-the-air updates and quick and plentiful charging infrastructure.

I don't think this is an issue in the USA where the price difference isn't so great.

The LR MY with no options is $80,000 CAD including tax in Ontario. The low end version of the ID4 would be $45,000 including tax and rebate in Ontario, less in Quebec. Frankly I would argue that the ID4 is objectively the better value.

 

[Schwifty_Jack]

Does anyone think Ford / VW will actually update these over-the-air in a fashion like Tesla? I don't know if I'd count on that, but maybe I'm wrong. My latest experience with another OEM was owning a 2020 BMW X3 (which admittedly is not an EV being compared to here). OTA updates were rolled out for the next model year with no discernable reason why, and 2020's were left to make a dealer visit. Even after updating to latest software there was still no OTA updates (only map upgrades are OTA). My point I guess is these OEM's don't operate like tech companies - they'll promise over the update capability, but I don't think there will be nearly the same attitude/approach that Tesla takes.

 

[mark95476]

$58k CDN is a lot of money. It's probably more than the average Canadian yearly wage.
$58k USD is a lot of money. It's probably more than the average American yearly wage.
€58k EUR is a lot of money. It's probably more than the average European yearly wage.

So $58k CDN/USD/EUR is a lot for anyone to spend on a vehicle. I'm sure there are MANY gassers that are <$58k CDN/USD/EUR that provide better value.

Electric vehicles are going to become cheaper and better, however, I think the id.4 is a bit underwhelming from a leading OEM like Volkswagen that has been making millions of vehicles years for decades. They've had the etron and Taycan for years so it's not like this was their first ever attempt at an EV.

@mark95476 okay again I think there's some currency confusion here. The LR AWD ID4 well-equipped is $58k Canadian, as compared to $70k Canadian for a MY LR AWD. And I'm not sure of US pricing on the Mach-E, but in Canada, a well-equipped LR AWD (Premium with the larger battery and AWD) Mach-E costs almost exactly the same as LR AWD Mach-E, while an E-tron is significantly costlier. So I'm sure I agree with all of your cross-shopping lists.

 

[yesup]

Correction: Not similarly equipped.
People aren't cross-shopping MY and id.4. They're cross-shopping Tesla with Audi (etron) and other high-end brands.
id.4 will be cross-shopped with the electric Mustang, Bolt, and the new Hyundai/Kia/Genesis EVs when looking at EVs.

Why are people not cross-shopping MY and ID4, Hyundai/Kia/Genesis?
Of course they DO!

Actually, Hyundai/Kia/Genesis looks very promising, even more so than ID4. Depending on the price point, they can definitely take sales away from MY.

 

[Blu-Ion]

xperiences with RWD, in an EV, Thanks for your information and I stand corrected about the popularity in of RWD in Canada. Since I am the grandfather who had those RWD cars, I am biased to having AWD. Some of my AWD cars, such as the Infiniti G35x were also rear wheel biased, unless the front was needed, and the G35x in particular was quite good in the snow, and in dry conditions. I'm still going to be looking for AWD in my cars in the future, unless I can personally try a RWD version in snow.

I use my RWD M3 in winter to access my cottage Quebec on a 2km private hilly road, I will tell you there is absolutely no problem with RWD, the main issue with the M3 is limited ground clearance in deep snow, Dual Motor may help a bit but not much
you need to forget all your 1970's experiences with RWD
Note this: All Dedicated Platform EVs are and will be RWD, the only FWD EVs are platform conversions from ICE Cars like Bolt and Kona. RWD is more efficient, more stable and get this - in a proper EV application - will provide better traction than FWD. Dual motor is more about performance than traction.

Here's a practical example of RWD vs FWD - load up a shopping cart and try pulling it up an incline... the do the same except pushing... which one works best?

 

[tmp131]

So to summarize what I've seen, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the similarly equipped ID4 to the MY LR price is $58k vs $70k.

ID4 Pros = more comfortable ride, two screens instead of just 1, what else?
ID4 Cons = slower, poorer handling, less storage space, less range, poorer charging experience (at least for now), goofy/sluggish UI, no camp mode (?), less premium look and feel

Still that's a very aggressive price point and will certainly give pause to a lot of MY shoppers. If I hadn't purchased my MY yet I would certainly take a hard look at it for

I think those that shop for value for ID4 will probably won't get the "statement" package. ID4 AWD including tax and all incentives in B.C. ($50K), Ontario ($54K), and Quebec ($47K) vs. Model Y ($80K). Model Y is certainly better in many respects: better charging network, tech ie. autopilot and posssible FSD, and performance (but ID4 AWD isn't a slouch either: I think 0-60 time is < 6 seconds) ; but I am unsure if it is $26K to $33K better...I suppose it depends on the person. I hope for folks in Canada, Tesla can drop the price so it could be similar to what it is in the USA.

 

[mark95476]

Sandy's not a fan.

 

[yepeekai]

Sandy is good at disassembling car and giving it's opinion on that. It is less so for riding evaluation... it shows that he's old. If I put my father in a Tesla, he won't be able to put it in drive or park or whatever... That's probably the worst video Sandy put out to date.

 

[yepeekai]

Sandy is good at disassembling car and giving it's opinion on that. It is less so for riding evaluation... it shows that he's old. If I put my father in a Tesla, he won't be able to put it in drive or park or whatever... That's probably the worst video Sandy put out to date.

That being said, ID4 UI doesn't look impressive... but you can use android auto or apple car play which are nice and could do most of what Sandy wanted to do.

 

[yepeekai]

Also, Sandy is now a Tesla fan and you have to take that into account when you look at its videos. He says he isn't but he clearly is. He even asked for Tesla's money on one of its video. It doesn't make its videos bad, but I see some bias here and there from time to time.

 

[yepeekai]

In Canada, the situation is very different than in the USA. There is the currency conversion that is not the same depending on the make of the vehicule. The supercharger network is incredible in comparison to others in the US but, in Québec, the network from the utility company is actually better (charging speed is less than Tesla but there are a lot more places where you can charge). Telsa supercharger network is pretty limited here.

Considering the base model, even the AWD model for the ID4 will be admissible to both federal and Quebec incentives, it makes it almost half the cost of a model Y. You can say whatever you like, a lot of people will find that for half the price, the ID4 is a better choice. If you exclude the price difference, the model Y is a better car, but I don't think everybody will ignore the price difference.