Idaho has $2.1 million left to install DC fast chargers because no one wants it

[Mockingbird]

website:

Volkswagen and Diesel Funding

www.deq.idaho.gov

project approved and money left:

https://www2.deq.idaho.gov/admin/LEIA/api/document/download/11627

Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment Program application:

https://www2.deq.idaho.gov/admin/LEIA/api/document/download/10591

Applications will be accepted until all available funds are exhausted or a site near your location has been selected.

 

[RTPEV]

Sad that only 4 grants have been issued, totaling about $500K out of the total $2.6 million.

When I look at the numbers though, it does make me wonder. Those 4 projects have a total of 6 stations (two single station sites and two 2-station sites). That's about $100K per station.

Now the costs are probably what they are. You have the costs of the charging stations themselves, plus the various overhead including trenching, paving and upgrading/bringing in electrical service. For the remaining $2.1 million, at that spending rate, you're going to get another 20 or so stations for your money? Across a huge state like Idaho?

And is it smart to promote single station sites in a rural state where you might get bitten by the single point of failure? I've seen some of these single station sites that were paid for by a grant eventually go down and the site host is no longer interested in maintaining the station because they aren't willing to spend any money on it. In other words, they got free money to put the station in, and unless there is more free money to make sure it stays up, it will eventually go down.

I wonder if a better approach is to provide some kind of matching grant for larger multi-station sites. Make sure the applicants are willing to invest a certain amount in the initial construction (so they will be likely to be interested in maintaining it) and focus on multi-station sites to eliminate the single point of failure in a remote area.

I will say that EA has done a very good job blanketing the main travel corridors that this grant money is hoping to cover:

It seems to me that Idaho ought to be reaching out to companies like EVgo to encourage an alternate provider to set up shop in the state and structure the grants to make the money go further (although I wonder if they can even do that).

Interesting discussion. I wonder what the situation is in other states.

 

[Rocky_H]

As you notice from that map, there are two interstate routes across the state. The I-90 section at the top and then the I-84 to I-86/I-15 area at the bottom. What is not getting service from anyone is the North-South route from Boise to Coeur D'Alene. That is a winding two lane state highway 55 and U.S. 95, but very heavily used. I have the same complaint about that route as the U.S. 95 highway route between Boise and Winnemucca. At least EVGo put some stuff along that one, but it's still a bit troublesome without Supercharger coverage.

 

[RTPEV]

I'm not even seeing the EVgo offerings along US-95. From Boise to Coeur d'Alene I'm only seeing a 2-stall fastcharger at a casino in Lewiston. So yes, if this is a heavily traveled route, it is vastly underserved.

 

[Mockingbird]

As you notice from that map, there are two interstate routes across the state. The I-90 section at the top and then the I-84 to I-86/I-15 area at the bottom. What is not getting service from anyone is the North-South route from Boise to Coeur D'Alene. That is a winding two lane state highway 55 and U.S. 95, but very heavily used. I have the same complaint about that route as the U.S. 95 highway route between Boise and Winnemucca. At least EVGo put some stuff along that one, but it's still a bit troublesome without Supercharger coverage.

I'm not even seeing the EVgo offerings along US-95. From Boise to Coeur d'Alene I'm only seeing a 2-stall fastcharger at a casino in Lewiston. So yes, if this is a heavily traveled route, it is vastly underserved.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm not even seeing the EVgo offerings along US-95.

I may have been a bit unclear in my wording. I compared the route from Boise going North to the other one, from Boise going South to Winnemucca, and I said EVGo had put some on "that one". Those are in McDermitt, NV and Orovada, NV. You're right that the route going North from Boise to Coeur D'Alene still has no DC fast charging of any kind. There are a couple of places you can find on Plugshare of locations that have installed wall connectors, or some RV parking places with 14-50 outlets, but that's it.

 

[RTPEV]

I may have been a bit unclear in my wording. I compared the route from Boise going North to the other one, from Boise going South to Winnemucca, and I said EVGo had put some on "that one". Those are in McDermitt, NV and Orovada, NV. You're right that the route going North from Boise to Coeur D'Alene still has no DC fast charging of any kind. There are a couple of places you can find on Plugshare of locations that have installed wall connectors, or some RV parking places with 14-50 outlets, but that's it.

Yes, I understood that, and I see the two stations you mentioned, but I have those as Greenlots, which can be a bit hit or miss. The back-end is managed by Greenlots, but the host site is typically responsible for managing the station itself (and repairs thereof), somewhat similar to the ChargePoint model, whereas EVgo at least actively manages their stations. So if you have a reputable host site, you are good to go, but I've seen many Greenlots sites where the host has effectively abandoned the stations and they just sit there and rot.

 

[Rocky_H]

Yes, I understood that, and I see the two stations you mentioned, but I have those as Greenlots, which can be a bit hit or miss.

Oh, whoops, I was going from memory and forgot to double check which company it was. Yes, it's those Greenlots ones. And yeah, those two have been having frequent problems, which is why I would really like the reliability and redundancy of Superchargers.

 

[Mockingbird]

Yes, I understood that, and I see the two stations you mentioned, but I have those as Greenlots, which can be a bit hit or miss. The back-end is managed by Greenlots, but the host site is typically responsible for managing the station itself (and repairs thereof), somewhat similar to the ChargePoint model, whereas EVgo at least actively manages their stations. So if you have a reputable host site, you are good to go, but I've seen many Greenlots sites where the host has effectively abandoned the stations and they just sit there and rot.

For ChargePoint, the host pays a (very expensive) yearly maintenance fee and ChargePoint makes sure that the stations work year round.

I am not sure how Greenlots works.

 

[RTPEV]

For ChargePoint, the host pays a (very expensive) yearly maintenance fee and ChargePoint makes sure that the stations work year round.

I am not sure how Greenlots works.

Well yes, ChargePoint will service broken stations. I'm not sure of the financial responsibility. While it's probably true that ChargePoint will maintain their equipment, repair may fall under the responsibility of the site host. And either way, nothing will happen until the site host calls in the repair to ChargePoint, and in my audit of US fastchargers, I have seen a plethora of instances where a fastcharger is down, drivers show up to the broken station and then contact ChargePoint, whereby they are told that ChargePoint will not take action until the site host calls in the repair, which in most of these cases never happens. In other words, the site host has apparently lost interest in hosting the station and has effectively abandoned it (this leads me to speculate that in fact the repair costs are actually the responsibility of the host, otherwise why wouldn't they simply just call in the issue?)

Greenlots is one step removed from ChargePoint. Usually you have a small regional network (or even an individual host, but this is pretty rare) who is interested in providing fast charging. They acquire the equipment themselves, secure the host sites (or they are the hosts themselves), and then just connect the charging stations to the Greenlots network who manages the back-end: charging station map/app, billing, and real-time availability. If you call up Greenlots with an issue, you will definitely just be told that you need to talk to the host, as they are responsible for all maintenance and repair and other issues. This is not necessarily a bad arrangement, but again, you are going to find a fair share of cases where the site host/network has lost interest in providing the station (or in many cases, has gone out of business) so the station effectively closes.

I don't know how well ChargePoint and Greenlots are about scrubbing their lists. I do come across a fair number of stations that are nominally on both of the networks (i.e. they appear on their respective charging maps), but the stations have been down for 6 months, a year, or even longer, and even in a few cases the stations are even physically gone according to Plugshare checkins. There are not as many of these cases as I would expect, so I do think there is at least a nominal effort made to scrub their lists, but it's not perfect.