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Idea for Tesla in USA: SuperCharger to CCS adapter

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by MightyHawk, Oct 21, 2019.

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  1. MightyHawk

    MightyHawk Member

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    A key asset for Tesla is its SuperCharger network. It is what has made it possible for people to consider a Tesla as their primary car, capable of both daily commuting and longer trips, and has driven its vehicle sales.

    But it's also apparent that the SuperCharger network is an underutilized asset in most places, meaning that Tesla is losing money in building and maintaining them. Over the long run this matters, as underutilized assets don't get maintained.

    A number of new EVs are coming to the market, but they face the issue of far fewer charging stations that support CCS vs the thousands that support Tesla's charging port. So this makes for a business opportunity that helps grow the market for EVs and helps Tesla with profitability.

    Tesla should create its own SuperCharger to CCS adapter. A non Tesla EV could pull into a SuperCharger spot, and plug in the adapter to their car, and then plug the SuperCharger port into the adapter. The device would tie via Bluetooth to a new TeslaChargeAdapter phone app that has the user's credit card information and that authorizes the adapter to allow juice to flow. In essence, the SuperCharger just thinks of this as being another Tesla. Think of it as TeslaTap with a bit more brains and capable of higher currents.

    Tesla can make money by charging a high per-KWH fee for using the adapter.

    Note that I am making an assumption that the voltages and currents make this feasible, and that the communication protocols can be made to work.

    Comments?
     
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  2. Brentt

    Brentt Member

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    I think it's a great idea and Elon has said he's not opposed to letting others use the charging network, but no one has approached them.
    Even though he says the super chargers aren't for profit, I think they are making money.
    Locally, they purchase electricity at about 4cents and then re-sell it for 12cents or more. There's not
    a gas station in America that wouldn't love this kind of return.
    In the distant future I wouldn't be surprised to see Tesla spin off their charging network.
     
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  3. drtimhill

    drtimhill Active Member

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    Well a lot of supercharger locations (at least on the west coast) are at or near capacity now, so letting non-Tesla cars would not seem such a good idea. Part of the value proposition of a Tesla is the SC network imho.
     
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  4. gilscales

    gilscales Active Member

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    Yeah its obvious neither of the first 2 posters are from California, I can barely find an open spot anymore when traveling, sometimes the queue is more cars than chargers! and it does not help that there are inevitably locals with free lifetime SC charging to 100%, if it gets any worse then we will not be able to take our Tesla on road trips unless I'm heading east!
     
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  5. MightyHawk

    MightyHawk Member

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    SuperCharger usage is clearly a regional thing.

    I am in Boston right now, and the closest 4 SuperCharger stations all have 50% or more availability this moment, and are averaging 75% empty. I personally have never seen a full SuperCharger anywhere except in Dedham, where they deliver new cars to the public and charge up the cars before delivery.
     
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  6. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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  7. Watts_Up

    Watts_Up Active Member

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  8. doghousePVD

    doghousePVD My grandfather’s car

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    Why should Tesla reward the ICE manufacturers who hate EVs?

    No way would/should Tesla open Superchargers to others, except possibly with a full IP swap license.

    A Bollinger pickup, maybe. A VW, Toyota, or GM, absolutely not never nohow noway!
     
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  9. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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    A little item that gets in the way of others using Superchargers is billing. Sure it can be done, but is it worth it?
     
  10. MightyHawk

    MightyHawk Member

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    The billing is done through the app, which ties to the adapter. Because the adapter and app are owned by Tesla, they can handle the communication protocol with CCS and the credit card billing.
     
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  11. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    I laughed about it at the time that was posted. That was not a sincere ask. If they had really meant to find out about that, they would have needed to ask about it at least a year or two earlier, when they were developing their vehicle, so they could have built in the technology to use it. But at that point, when they were taking deposits and less than a year from build and delivery of their first vehicles, and have their design locked in? HA!! :D No--they were not serious, because even if the answer had been "yes", it was way too late for them to design it in.

    It was just a ploy to get attention, buzz, and media coverage. And that's what it got--I saw a couple of articles about it.
     
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  12. MightyHawk

    MightyHawk Member

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    Tesla would do it if it was good for Tesla's financial situation. In case you haven't noticed, it's not the most financially stable company around. And it's not rewarding the other auto companies if the power is being sold at a profit.
     
  13. MightyHawk

    MightyHawk Member

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    This is actually going the other way, letting others plug into the SuperCharger network to allow Tesla to make a profit, thereby promoting further SuperCharger buildouts.
     
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  14. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I skimmed and didn't notice this was for the other direction.
     
  15. doghousePVD

    doghousePVD My grandfather’s car

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    Guess we’ll agree to disagree.

    The adaptor would be a lot more expensive than the Chademo, because in addition to the firmware translation layer, it would need WiFi to connect to charger and have a pseudo-VIN with a registered credit card on file with Tesla. It would also need to know to which vehicle it is connected to so the right charging parameters are passed to the pedestal.

    If I remember the specs properly, it would also need batteries to activate the handshake, unlike how Tesla does it.

    I doubt big ICE wants to share the secrets of the users and fleets anyway.

    How would Tesla preheat cold batteries of competitor cars? Cold batteries and tiny battery packs would clog up the SC network.

    Tesla knows at scale where the fleet is and is growing and tries to manage its resources for optimum utilization. How would the telematics work? The most likely outcome is even more overcrowding in California and corporate resources are wasted helping competitors who have crappy home charging options.[/QUOTE]
     
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  16. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    This is hilarious. You obviously don't know anything about commercial electric billing. The raw kWh cost of generation might possibly be as low a 4c/kWh during certain times of the day, but delivery charges and demand charges significantly add to that on both a kWh basis and monthly basis. There is no way that 12c/kWh will be profit making, especially in California.
     
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  17. drtimhill

    drtimhill Active Member

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    Oh totally. Tesla sell a LOT of cars on west coast (obvious really) and there is much more strain on the infrastructure there I suspect. I'm not sure what "averaging 75% empty" can really mean. If it covers all 24 hours then I'm not surprised .. at 2am most SCs are quiet even in CA.
     
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  18. doghousePVD

    doghousePVD My grandfather’s car

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    I've driven from western Ontario, Maine to Florida, and have never waited to charge at any Super Charger. I have seen on the map that Dedham was full, but the three times I stopped there, a stall was available.

    I think the California problem is 3 drivers not getting charging at home. In wintery New England, home charging is a necessity for preheating cars, not so in sunny Cali.
     
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  19. jbw550313

    jbw550313 JWAmpsOnly

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    Come to the Seattle area and try to use one of the Urban Superchargers (Lynnwood & Issaquah) during the daytime or evening. I'm sure California is even worse.
     
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  20. GW2580

    GW2580 New Member

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    Ditto for Portland OR. At least 75% of the time superchargers are full. Time is limited to 40 minutes as well.
     
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