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idea: group buy mobile charger +RCM approval

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by Gabz, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    #1 Gabz, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
    started thinking about that it's now very unlikely the tesla mobile charger will be more than 10amps heosat has one and it's only 10amps.

    thought about taking the kickstarter approach so group buy a mobile chargers and spread the rcm approval cost.

    so starting with some back of the envelope calculations if we look at a 3phase unit.
    evse calcs.jpg

    So best case is unit has CE approval and we can use reports gained for CE approval for RCM approval worst case is we have no certification

    obviously numbers would be more refined once we start talking to manufacturers and see what reports they have etc.. bulk discounts etc..

    Just my idea for the long weekend.

    I know some of you already imported units without approval and some have put flex cables on tesla units... but some people don't want to take the legal/insurance risk of using a non approved import or ruin the IP rating of the tesla unit by taking it off the wall.
     
  2. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    timings is another thing it would probably take 1-2 months to do this... depends on the manufacturer.
     
  3. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    As a Model S owner my "Perfect" solution would work something like Martin Eberhard's Roadster Foundry Mobile Charger.
    I note that the JuiceBooster 1 also works in a similar way that it can vary the pilot signal on the device and may even be three phase compatible? Assuming it will be fitted with a Clipsal 56P532 plug I don't see many places where the matching 56SO532 socket would be available to a travelling Model S owner. Until more infrastructure rolls out the best available is generally 15 Amp sockets that are fitted to Chargepoint charging posts and Caravan Parks.
    So to retain the CE rating of the whole "Charging Solution" I would imagine there would also need to be swappable converter cables with the appropriate AS/NZS 3112 10 & 15 and 56P532 plug end and these would use some signalling technique to automatically adjust the selected current on the JucieBooster to be legal under Australian Wiring Standards.
    I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, just trying to learn how such a device would work In practice.
    I'm not an electrician so I would be interested to hear from anyone who thinks any of my assumptions are wrong.
     
  4. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    yes sorry i was thinking about getting it with a 56P532 included that as a $100 line item should cover purchasing them then shipping them to the manufacturer.

    the wiring standards allow for 15amp to 10 amp as long as there is a 10 amp cb just post the socket like the jaycar unit or the amphibian. this means even if you do select the wrong amperage on the device the cb will trip.

    we can't retain the CE rating at all CE doesn't automatically convert to RCM but the tests you do if you had to do a EMC test for CE then you can use the EMC test report for RCM and don't have to redo test. etc..
     
  5. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    So if I understand this correctly the idea is to send some 56P532 plugs to the manufacturer so they can manufacture the JuiceBooster 1 with a this plug in place of the normally fitted CEE32 plug. Once approved this would only allow for charging from 3 phase 56SO532 sockets which are as rare as hens teeth and I'm not aware of any that are publicly available.
    If this is the case we still need two adapter cables with a 56SO532 to AS/NZS 3112 15 Amp and 10 Amp with suitably sized in-line circuit breakers.
    My reading of the German language website indicates that they make adapter cables for the juice booster, so is the idea to get them to make the adapter cables or do you think you can get them made locally.
    Finally will it be necessary to get these approved separately or can they be combined as part of the approval of the Juice Booster 1?
     
  6. raynewman

    raynewman Member

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    I suggest you give up listening to GABZ. It is not a Tesla owner and it is trying to manipulate this forum for its profit.

    There are competent people testing some of the European units to see which are useful to us and which fit any government regulation (where applicable).

    Stay tuned....
     
  7. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    Some of this stuff I haven't thought through like the adapter cables, if you make them up from already approved parts and then there wouldn't need much if anything to approve them probably.... if in reality you only want a 10amp 15amp plug then you can find stuff cheaper than a juice booster 1.

    it was a weekend thought just threw some numbers in a spreadsheet. and they are rough numbers.. there would be a lot more detail that would need to be added. Just wanted to see if there was interest before putting in effort but so far there 1 interested and 1 person implying I’m incompetent.
     
  8. MangroveMike

    MangroveMike Member

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    I'm really not sure what manipulation you are reading into this raynewman, but having met and spent time with Gabz including giving him a ride in my Tesla, he is passionate about EVs (as an owner), knows charging infrastructure intimately (and technically) and is trying to help out in solving a problem.

    Whatever the the rock is in your shoe (or your agenda) , it really isn't contributing to this discussion and if you want to slag someone off maybe it should be done elsewhere.
     
  9. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    Putting my Moderator hat on for a moment I would like to reaffirm that all TMC members, both Tesla owners and non owners, are welcome to post their thoughts and ideas here but should remain respectful of other posters even when you don't agree with the content of their post.
    Taking the hat off again, I think the potential for a truly Universal Mobile Connector for the Australian market could be made with the Juice Booster 1 (JB1) as a starting point. I can see significant risks of such a venture however, including Tesla may come up with something equivalent or close to equivalent and the added benefit to owners of the ability to charge off 3 phase plug would be small and possibly not worth the extra expense.
    So if it were me I would work on the possibility of simply designing 3 adapter cables that fit the original CEE32 plug on the unmodified JB1.
    I'm guessing that the JB1 is already CEE certified so should be easier/cheaper to be certified in Australia along with the 3 adapter cables with a CEE32 socket on one end and either a 56P532, AS/NZS 3112 15 Amp or AS/NZS 10 Amp on the supply side.
    If I understand this correctly I don't believe that the CEE32 plug includes a pin for a pilot signal so the user would have to adjust the Amp setting on the JB1 manually so each adapter would require an in line circuit breaker to prevent over loading the supply circuit.
    So the whole excercise is proof that a truely universal EV socket that supports 3 phase and single phase with automatic amp signalling is the ideal solution, The only one of these currently in existence, to my knowledge, is the IEC62196 Type 2. So perhaps we should talk about how we encourage this to become the standard socket for all EVSE in Australia?
     

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