Idea: Regen could not trigger the 3rd brake light ?

[McRat]

You would think by now, since all cars have 4 wheel RPM sensors (for ABS) and accelerometers (for Stability Control) that brake lights would all be progressive and based on whether the car is actually slowing down, not somebody driving poorly with 2 feet.

 

[JeffK]

In my opinion, it simply doesn't matter how much a person is slowing down... The lights should be immediate and full brightness.

 

[Carl]

Just did a few minutes googling on this: some brands are working on this already (or actually even have it) : usually some combination of having the ordinary tail lights, rear fog lights and/or emergency lights come on as well in case of hard braking, or having the third brake light flash, for example. Apparently the MB S-Class has all its brake lights and emergency lights flash in case of emergency braking since 2012.

BMW
Volvo
Mercedes

So apparently this is old news. Would of course be good if there was some industry consensus/standard on the subject (for example if ABS works for more than 0.5 seconds, emergency lights and third brake light flash very quickly, in addition to other brake lights on of course). But anyway there are apparently more intelligent people working on this so we'll see what becomes the standard!

@JeffK insists that we don't go 'back' on the third braking light. I can understand that idea and upon reflexion agree with it (given that we, over the last 25 years, have become used to the third brake light coming on whenever someone in an ICE car hits the brakes, however hard) but still I think there should be a difference in brake light signals between simply using "Tesla-high-regen" (i.e. not applying the brakes at all - 'ordinary' brake light signal), using the brakes in addition to regen (more prominent signal), and slamming those brakes (berserk signal). If Tesla's software could manage this in terms of amount of deceleration (in G's) instead of whether or not (and how hard) you're applying the brakes, even better!

 

[JeffK]

Just did a few minutes googling on this: some brands are working on this already (or actually even have it) : usually some combination of having the ordinary tail lights, rear fog lights and/or emergency lights come on as well in case of hard braking, or having the third brake light flash, for example. Apparently the MB S-Class has all its brake lights and emergency lights flash in case of emergency braking since 2012.

BMW
Volvo
Mercedes

So apparently this is old news. Would of course be good if there was some industry consensus/standard on the subject (for example if ABS works for more than 0.5 seconds, emergency lights and third brake light flash very quickly, in addition to other brake lights on of course). But anyway there are apparently more intelligent people working on this so we'll see what becomes the standard!

@JeffK insists that we don't go 'back' on the third braking light. I can understand that idea and upon reflexion agree with it (given that we, over the last 25 years, have become used to the third brake light coming on whenever someone in an ICE car hits the brakes, however hard) but still I think there should be a difference in brake light signals between simply using "Tesla-high-regen" (i.e. not applying the brakes at all - 'ordinary' brake light signal), using the brakes in addition to regen (more prominent signal), and slamming those brakes (berserk signal). If Tesla's software could manage this in terms of amount of deceleration (in G's) instead of whether or not (and how hard) you're applying the brakes, even better!

Those three are excellent examples and all three of them not only light up as normal, but in an emergency situation, do even more to alert the rear driver. More being the keyword.

As long as you stick with the minimum of the three brake lights fully lit when decelerating with a certain level of force, then anything added (including flashing) in a harder braking/ABS/emergency situation is beneficial. Exactly how you decelerate though, regen, brakes, regen plus brakes should be irrelevant though, as it simply doesn't matter to other drivers.

If Tesla's software could manage this in terms of amount of deceleration (in G's) instead of whether or not (and how hard) you're applying the brakes, even better!

This is spot-on.

 

[dsvick]

So apparently this is old news. Would of course be good if there was some industry consensus/standard on the subject (for example if ABS works for more than 0.5 seconds, emergency lights and third brake light flash very quickly, in addition to other brake lights on of course). But anyway there are apparently more intelligent people working on this so we'll see what becomes the standard!

@JeffK insists that we don't go 'back' on the third braking light. I can understand that idea and upon reflexion agree with it (given that we, over the last 25 years, have become used to the third brake light coming on whenever someone in an ICE car hits the brakes, however hard) but still I think there should be a difference in brake light signals between simply using "Tesla-high-regen" (i.e. not applying the brakes at all - 'ordinary' brake light signal), using the brakes in addition to regen (more prominent signal), and slamming those brakes (berserk signal). If Tesla's software could manage this in terms of amount of deceleration (in G's) instead of whether or not (and how hard) you're applying the brakes, even better!

I agree with the extra blinking/flashing attention grabbing lights in the case of emergency braking.

I don't think there should a distinction in light levels for ordinary braking vs regen though. Whether it through regen or the brakes being applied the effect is the same so the notification should be the same. Yes, one may slow the car faster or slower than the other but that happens now with normal cars, normal brakes, and normal drivers. When the brake lights come on the drivers should not have to be concerned with trying to determine whether or not the car in front of them is an EV and if it's under regen, or maybe it's an ICE and the third light is broken.

Maybe when most cars are EVs that have regen braking it will be more meaningful but for now it would only add confusion.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Wouldn't it be an idea if for regenerative braking only the two "20th century" rear brake lights came on, and the third brake light in the rear window was only activated when you really used the brake pedal? Would make it easier to estimate the level of braking of the car in front of you.

That would mean that EVERYONE traveling behind a Tesla would have to know Teslas are designing their braking system - in order for them to respond to Tesla appropriately.

 

[WileyTheMan]

And with LEDs not being limited to an on/off state like incandescent bulbs, I would think it would be easy for car manufacturers (that provide LED tail lights) to gradually increase the brightness of the brake lights depending on how quickly the car is decelerating. The only downside I can see is it would be slightly distracting to the driver following the car.