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Ideal Charge Rate??

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Yikes, hot enough to melt the wire casing? Also do you know this from experience by going inside the conduit to touch it or is it just widely known?
No, not hot enough to melt the casing but hotter than I would care to hold for more than a second or two. I'd estimate about 75 C based on touch. At 33 amps it gets warm but not hot. The longer portion of the cable is not hot, just the short portion.
 
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No, not hot enough to melt the casing but hotter than I would care to hold for more than a second or two. I'd estimate about 75 C based on touch. At 33 amps it gets warm but not hot. The longer portion of the cable is not hot, just the short portion.
Well thanks for scaring the crap out of me. I'm going outside now and dial down to 30 A.
 
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The plug gets only moderately warm, but the cable between the plug and GFI is very hot at 40 amps.
I guess I am confused. I plug into the NEMA receptacle with my UMC cable. It is wired inside conduit from there back to my breaker panel. The plug does not get warm at all in my case. Do you have a diagram? Is the GFI the box with the green LED? That short cable in my case does not get any hotter than the longer section.
 
I guess I am confused. I plug into the NEMA receptacle with my UMC cable. It is wired inside conduit from there back to my breaker panel. The plug does not get warm at all in my case. Do you have a diagram? Is the GFI the box with the green LED? That short cable in my case does not get any hotter than the longer section.
I think he's talking about inside the conduit.
 
Well thanks for scaring the crap out of me. I'm going outside now and dial down to 30 A.
Understand it could just be my particular UMC. It's been around for three years. Check what yours feels like after it's been charging for awhile.

Note that the most efficient charging range starts at 32 amps. Also when the system detects a problem it drops it down to 30 amps, so I set mine at 33. Also the electricity in my area is flakey. It's been that way for a couple of decades. That may also have something to do with it. When I first moved here, I was concerned but the electricians I have had in to look at it say that all the houses in my area are similar.
 
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Agreed. I was more thinking reliability for the charger itself and the EVSE. :)

Oh yes, I only meant to address the original post's comment about battery life. Charging equipment life is an interesting question and I have no idea what the optimum is there. At $500 for a wall connector and ~$2000 for a replacement charger, it's at least not quite as big of a deal as hurting the $20,000+ battery.
 
Have you actually experienced your UMC heating up much? I charge at 40 amps, 240 V with my UMC and it gets only slightly warm on the cable itself, but not anywhere near hot to the touch. The warmest point I found was on the metal plate of the UMC near the green LED. I felt no noticeable warmth from the car plug or the NEMA plug end of the cable.

People’s descriptions of relative hotness are always going to be really subjective and hard to relate to other people in text. Mine is apparently not as hot as @jerry33 is describing. It would not burn my hand or feel uncomfortable to hold for a while, but from working with and building computer stuff for many years, I know that heat and temperature cycling is the main thing that hurts electronics, and that box in the charge cable and the cord was feeling kind of warm.

I keep hearing people say, “It’s kind of warm, but not REALLY hot, so it’s fine.” But I look at the pros and cons of the situation. What do I gain by running it at 40A? Not a single thing at all. There is zero benefit to me in doing that. I’m going to be sleeping, so it doesn’t matter if it takes 2 hours or 3 hours during the night to recharge. But by turning down the current a little bit, it takes away that slight warmness.

Also, people forget that it’s not just how the temperature is while it is running. Materials stress (like the solder points on circuit boards or metal/metal junctions that expand and contract) are affected by cycles in how far the temperature MOVES and how many times. When the cable isn’t being used, it’s garage room temperature. When you use it, it heats up 20 or 30 degrees or whatever, and then goes back down that same 20-30 degree difference when it cools off. It’s doing that low/high/low cycle every single day. If I can make that cycle several degrees smaller, that is a bit less stress on the materials. It may be a very small benefit, but it’s something.

So I compare a small benefit to the materials with absolutely no difference to my charging convenience, and putting the current down by several amps is a net positive.
 
Will be installing a dedicated NEMA 50 Amp charger in my garage this week or next, finishing my self install of a 6.12 kW home solar system from gogreensolar.com. I am preparing for my Model 3 reservation which will be my first EV, going from my 04' Mitsubishi Galant, very excited. Just got my confirmation from DMV that my personalized plates are ready, "LIL T3S." Anyways, my question is, should I be be dumbing down the charge rate to 33 amp as stated above and this is done in the car? I have 8 free level 2 charging stations at work and am finishing the above home solar system which will cover 108% of my electricity usage from last year before finishing the 2nd half of my homes window replacements and attic fan being installed. How much per month do Californians see added to their PGE for average driving? I upgraded the SolarEdge inverter (compatible with Tesla PowerWall if they drop in $) for my system so that I can add more panels to completely offset the price of charging my 3, just did not want to completely overbuild it as you will never recoup that money from PGE when they pay you for extra electricity at a wholesale rate. Thanks for any advice.
 
One consideration that hasn't been mentioned yet is the neighborhood transformer. Things are fine if just one car is charging but if multiple cars on the same transformer start charging at 70A unnecessarily at 2AM it could be a problem. Charging at a slower but adequate rate like 30-40A allows for more EVs before the utility needs to upgrade the transformer.
 
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This makes sense ... more heat generated equals less efficiency.

There has been some misinformation about this for a while now (at least regarding the refreshed on-board chargers). I have been gathering data (still in progress) that clearly shows that charging efficiency is better at reduced current. The efficiency here is measured as the ratio of "charge_energy_added" as reported from the car's REST API divided by the meter reading of the meter connected to my HPWC. I've have also verrified for 2 charging cycles that the meter reading is in agreement with a time-integration of the product of "charger_voltage" and "charger_actual_current" from the REST API sampled every 3 seconds over the course of the charge duration. (This last part means that anybody can replicate these experiments entirely with the REST API even if they don't have a utility meter dedicated to the charger). Below doesn't look like many points, but in fact there are a few points lying on top of each other (at least at this scale). I'll be publishing my full spreadsheet once I've completed my experiments. I provide this preliminary sneak previous because it clearly contradicts the mantra of "highest power is most efficient". I haven't yet tested below 25A, but I suspect 25A is near peak efficiency.
pubchart

pubchart
 
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NO!

There has been some misinformation about this for a while now (at least regarding the refreshed on-board chargers). I have been gathering data (still in progress) that clearly shows that charging efficiency is better at reduced current. The efficiency here is measured as the ratio of "charge_energy_added" as reported from the car's REST API divided by the meter reading of the meter connected to my HPWC. I've have also verrified for 2 charging cycles that the meter reading is in agreement with a time-integration of the product of "charger_voltage" and "charger_actual_current" from the REST API sampled every 3 seconds over the course of the charge duration. (This last part means that anybody can replicate these experiments entirely with the REST API even if they don't have a utility meter dedicated to the charger). Below doesn't look like many points, but in fact there are a few points lying on top of each other (at least at this scale). I'll be publishing my full spreadsheet once I've completed my experiments. I provide this preliminary sneak previous because it clearly contradicts the mantra of "highest power is most efficient". I haven't yet tested below 25A, but I suspect 25A is near peak efficiency.
pubchart
So for the DUAL 40A chargers in our 2015 Tesla P85D charging via a Tesla HPWC (set to 80A max on a 100A 240V circuit) would the ideal charge rate be 50A since exceeding 40A charge rate activates the 2nd charger and they'd EACH charge at 25A?
 
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So for the DUAL 40A chargers in our 2015 Tesla P85D charging via a Tesla HPWC (set to 80A max on a 100A 240V circuit) would the ideal charge rate be 50A since exceeding 40A charge rate activates the 2nd charger and they'd EACH charge at 25A?
I can't answer that because the chargers are different. The Circuit design changes when they made the various changes for the facelift cars. So I have no data on the old chargers but others may have.
 
I can't answer that because the chargers are different. The Circuit design changes when they made the various changes for the facelift cars. So I have no data on the old chargers but others may have.

Thanks for your response! Hopefully some other gen1 Tesla dual charger will have some insight.

FYI I set our Tesla's "regular" charge rate at 50A to:
  1. spread the load / wear to both chargers (24A each)
  2. keep the HPWC handle / cable and Tesla charge port at a moderately WARM temp vs. HOT at 80A... thinking HEAT = wasted energy
  3. leave plenty of time for even a completely empty battery to recharge overnight. Our dual chargers running on our HPWC at 50A 240V charges at 33 MPH which would fully recharge a completely empty 85kW battery (253 miles @ 100%) during our SCE 10 hour 10:00 PM to 8:00 AM "Super Off-Peak" lowest kWh TOU-B-D electric rate
 
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Where can I find this paper? Anyway that paper probably pre-dates the new on board 48/72 A charger. My car is a refreshed 70D so my measurements are about the new charger. Last night I did the first 20A charge rate and the efficiency when down significantly at that current. The chart in the first post is a "published" google sheets graph, so the picture in the previous post shows the latest graph as I add more data.
Great info! Thanks!
Would love a link to that published google sheet.