Idle fee scam?

[ElectricIAC]

80% limit reset should be removed when the next stop requires 70% or more charge to arrive at.

 

[EV_Steve]

80% limit reset should be removed when the next stop requires 70% or more charge to arrive at.

That doesn’t help. I was not doing a linear trip. I needed 100% for my day activities.

 

[ElectricIAC]

That doesn’t help. I was not doing a linear trip. I needed 100% for my day activities.

Been there, done that. You can reset the limit back to 100% after it gives you the warning and it’ll stick.

 

[EV_Steve]

Been there, done that. You can reset the limit back to 100% after it gives you the warning and it’ll stick.

I didn’t receive a warning that the limit was reset. I checked when I got a notice when charging had finished much earlier than anticipated.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

There are several things about my recent experience that don’t wash.

1. Tesla resetting my charge limit. There was no onscreen notification of this. Perhaps because of my failing MCU that they won’t schedule for replacement yet. But that’s another story.

2. Requiring my credit card number being on file. I have no problem with supplying a Paypal account but do not want my CC sitting on another server waiting to be hacked.

3. The lack of documentation provided for the incurred idle fee.

4. The signage of the charging stalls.

For the record, I have no problem paying an idle fee if it is justified.

1.

Agree.

The natural Supercharging process is:
1) Exit vehicle
2) Plug in
3) Confirm charging has started
4) Walk away from car.

So if something has changed, you need to be notified. A notification on screen and to the app
But I think also doing something with the charging light/lights.
Then however you confirm charging you'd know it had changed.

2) I don't think they should require a credit card either, but they need something, and it would good to support other payment methods.

4) If a charging spot is general parking for n minutes, then you should always be able to be plugged in for at least n minutes without idle fees.

 

[Rocky_H]

I didn't know there is a law suit going on about the idle fees, claiming that it violates the free for life Supercharging. That's ludicrous (pun obviously intended). Once you have stopped charging, YOU'RE NOT SUPERCHARGING. So the fees are not for Supercharging. I have a 2014 car that has the FUSC, and the idle fees are quite clearly still in compliance with both the spirit and the letter of the contracted agreement for it. I do kind of wish that the initial grace period was maybe 10 minutes instead of 5, but close enough.

 

[Gasaraki]

No, I perfectly understand the point you are making, I just think you're wrong. But maybe I'm mistaken instead. In furtherance of that possibility, please upload a pic or screenshot of your contract with Tesla where the term "free unlimited supercharging" is defined and where it spells out exactly what is and/or isn't covered. The problem is that, so far as I'm aware, these are not defined terms. Tesla is going to say that Supercharging is something like "the provision of DC electricity from a Tesla Supercharging station for the purpose of charging the battery on a Tesla EV." And since idle fees aren't incurred during the delivery of electricity they aren't covered under "free supercharging." They are going to say "unlimited" is only about the volume of electricity that you can get for free, not anything else. To my mind, both of those definitions are perfectly reasonable and hence charging idle fees and enforcing payment via access restriction is kosher, even on cars that have FUSC. But of course you or any of the others who disagree are perfectly free to try to get a judge/mediator to see things your way. I think there's already a lawsuit about this, so you may not have to do anything yourself.

Separately, I believe you were notified of the charging limit change. When you plug in, I believe there's a pop up on the car's screen about adjusting the charging limit to 80% at busy stations. This may technically be adequate, but it's certainly a dumb implementation by Tesla for this not to be a push notification that goes to your phone too, which I don't think it does. Too easy for people to miss it if they plug in and walk away without looking at the screen, which only causes needless aggravation.

People just pulling sh** out of their asses. Tesla didn't "go in to a contract" with that person to provide free supercharging, like you said, we want to see this contract.

The notification goes to the Tesla screen AND to the phone, both the idle notification and the charge limit change to 80%. I know because whenever I charge, i pull up the app to watch the state of charge while watching Netflix. It's actually warns you at 73% if you have the limit at 80% and 78% if you have it at 85%.

 

[dgatwood]

Been there, done that. You can reset the limit back to 100% after it gives you the warning and it’ll stick.

Except it doesn't. If charging gets interrupted for any reason (bugs, power sags, a defective Supercharger, etc.), then as soon as charging is restored, it resets the limit back to 80% again. I've had this happen to me before at least once, and I think twice. Fortunately, I noticed it just before idle fees would have started accruing, but I was seriously angry when it happened.

Tesla charging idle fees for actual driver mistakes is one thing, but when the charge stoppage was caused by bugs in their own sh**ty software, that's quite another.

 

[Rocky_H]

People just pulling sh** out of their asses. Tesla didn't "go in to a contract" with that person to provide free supercharging, like you said, we want to see this contract.

Regarding what constitutes a "contract", I think a lot of people don't understand how broad the formats of contracts can be. People seem to be insisting if there wasn't a hardcopy printed paper with words on the top that says: "THIS IS A CONTRACT", then it's not. But that's not how contract law works; it's not that narrow. There can be verbal contracts, without any writing at all. In this case, the contract consisted of the offer, published by Tesla on their website, that purchase of ______ includes ______. That is a contract offering. And people seeing that offer and making the purchase is the acceptance/agreement to that contract.

All the details related to that, with the exact parameters about the extent or inclusions and exclusions, etc. of contracts are why there are a lot of lawyers in a lot of cases every year to debate those things. So yes, sure there is going to be argument of what's involved here, but a contract certainly does exist in form of an offer and acceptance by purchasing.

 

[Russell]

The supercharger where this happened has signs posted on each space allowing 30 minutes general parking. Does that seem like a disconnect?

Was the lot full that you had no choice but to general park there?

Still, you should keep an "eye" on your car when it is charging. When your car is done charging, you should move it.
Don't rely on the app to notify you because you may not have good cell signal to receive it.

 

[roblab]

The car tells you how long it will take to charge when you plug it in. Ignoring that and letting the car sit because you're busy eating at the restaurant or whatever is ON YOU. Too many people I've seen charging are all upset because the car was done and they actually had to leave the restaurant to move the car, when it has already told you, "I'll be ready in 25 minutes". Cry me a river. But move your car first. Some of us are needing to charge and head on down the road.

 

[dgatwood]

The car tells you how long it will take to charge when you plug it in. Ignoring that and letting the car sit because you're busy eating at the restaurant or whatever is ON YOU. Too many people I've seen charging are all upset because the car was done and they actually had to leave the restaurant to move the car, when it has already told you, "I'll be ready in 25 minutes". Cry me a river. But move your car first. Some of us are needing to charge and head on down the road.

The problem is that, as I previously mentioned, the cars can reset their charging limit back to 80% after you have left the car, which means your car can easily stop charging half an hour earlier than originally indicated, give or take.

And if you're in an area with poor cell service when that happens, you may not get the notification or be able to act on it in time to avoid paying $30 in idle fees for something that was entirely Tesla's fault (not to mention wasting an extra half hour of your time waiting for it to charge after you return to your car).

Before the 80% limit bulls**t, the idle fees were fine. Now, they're a real problem. Well, really, the 80% limits are the problem. Idle fees just make the problem worse.

 

[MP3Mike]

I didn't know there is a law suit going on about the idle fees, claiming that it violates the free for life Supercharging. That's ludicrous (pun obviously intended). Once you have stopped charging, YOU'RE NOT SUPERCHARGING. So the fees are not for Supercharging.

I don't think they are confusing what the fees are for in the law suit. I think the issue is that if you don't pay your idle fees they turn off your Supercharging access. Which prevents you from using your free unlimited Supercharging. Is that Ok? That seems iffy to me.

They can certainly charge you idle/parking fees, but what options do they have to encourage you to pay them? For example, I don't think they could deny warranty service until you paid them.

 

[cpa]

They can certainly charge you idle/parking fees, but what options do they have to encourage you to pay them? For example, I don't think they could deny warranty service.

Correct. But warranty service bears no causal relationship to incurring idle fees. That said, could the Service Center require payment of idle fees before releasing your vehicle after they perform the warranty work at no cost to you?

What about service outside of warranty? All older vehicles are now out of warranty except for the battery and motor. Eventually they will need a 12V replacement or door handles replaced.

 

[EV_Steve]

Regarding what constitutes a "contract", I think a lot of people don't understand how broad the formats of contracts can be. People seem to be insisting if there wasn't a hardcopy printed paper with words on the top that says: "THIS IS A CONTRACT", then it's not. But that's not how contract law works; it's not that narrow. There can be verbal contracts, without any writing at all. In this case, the contract consisted of the offer, published by Tesla on their website, that purchase of ______ includes ______. That is a contract offering. And people seeing that offer and making the purchase is the acceptance/agreement to that contract.

All the details related to that, with the exact parameters about the extent or inclusions and exclusions, etc. of contracts are why there are a lot of lawyers in a lot of cases every year to debate those things. So yes, sure there is going to be argument of what's involved here, but a contract certainly does exist in form of an offer and acceptance by purchasing.

Well said. I managed a healthcare procurement department for many years and have studied contract law extensively.

I’m glad you took the time to explain it. I was tempted but it felt about a productive as pissing up a rope.

 

[TomServo]

We charged at the Glen Allen VA SC'er on July 5th on our way home, it has 20 stalls, I received the message of "temporarily reduced charging limit of 80%" but that could be overridden IF NEEDED. When I got there there were 12 cars charging. I needed more than 80% so I bumped up my charging to 90% we stopped charging at 89% and departed. I wasn't charged any idle fees. Odd what happened to you.

 

[qdeathstar]

Tesla has instituted a 80% max for people at busy chargers. This is intended to keep people from hoging all the spots, for extended times, just to get that last bit of juice.
Hard to justify one person sitting an extra 20 minutes to get that last couple %, while a guy, with his family, wait in a line to get some juice to get them home.

I know people pride themselves on doing the 100% work around, but that just makes the experience so much worse for people waiting in line.

Seems reasonable to me...

 

[qdeathstar]

That’s why they set it to 80% and state that if you need the extra juice, you may change it to whatever you need it to be. To go back and reset after you moved it back above that Is a disservice.

It depends on just how busy the station is. If it is very busy the limit changes. Also, you receive notifications on your phone so it’s not like you can not know. And before someone tries the lame “I turned off notifications/I don’t keep my phone on” excuse, that is your decision and your decision has consequences. grow up.

 

[dgatwood]

It depends on just how busy the station is. If it is very busy the limit changes. Also, you receive notifications on your phone so it’s not like you can not know. And before someone tries the lame “I turned off notifications/I don’t keep my phone on” excuse, that is your decision and your decision has consequences. grow up.

I've not received notifications from the Tesla app while charging at the Mountain View, CA supercharger, one block away from Google's headquarters. Don't pretend notifications are reliable. They aren't. In fact, I've had problems with not getting charge notifications even while sitting inside my car at multiple superchargers in multiple states.

The rule should be that once the car says it will be supercharging for some number of minutes, you have that many minutes, and idle fees will not be charged prior to that time no matter what happens, whether the limit changes, the car randomly stops charging because of some car-side or station-side fault, or any other issue, because you have to assume that notifications will not be delivered reliably.

Either that or Tesla needs to put up a microcell that supports every cellular carrier at every supercharger....

 

[qdeathstar]

I've not received notifications from the Tesla app while charging at the Mountain View, CA supercharger, one block away from Google's headquarters. Don't pretend notifications are reliable. They aren't. In fact, I've had problems with not getting charge notifications even while sitting inside my car at multiple superchargers in multiple states.

The rule should be that once the car says it will be supercharging for some number of minutes, you have that many minutes, and idle fees will not be charged prior to that time no matter what happens, whether the limit changes, the car randomly stops charging because of some car-side or station-side fault, or any other issue, because you have to assume that notifications will not be delivered reliably.

I think I’ve supercharged about 30 times in two years but the two times I should have gotten a notification I did, so sample size is small, but I havnt experienced this issue.

your suggestion seems reasonable to me