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Idle Fee

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Tesla just sucks in these kind of ways.

I don't see why you need to get your waiver back. You understand about idle fees and Tesla's whims and foibles. The waiver is for first-timers who might not.

If you set the car to charge to more than 80% you're at particular risk of Tesla sucking in a way that causes them to charge you an idle fee, and you'll have to argue against the charge if it happens. The common mitigation is to set the car to charge above 80% _after_ you've plugged in and have been charging for a minute.
 
Tesla just sucks in these kind of ways.

I don't see why you need to get your waiver back. You understand about idle fees and Tesla's whims and foibles. The waiver is for first-timers who might not.

If you set the car to charge to more than 80% you're at particular risk of Tesla sucking in a way that causes them to charge you an idle fee, and you'll have to argue against the charge if it happens. The common mitigation is to set the car to charge above 80% _after_ you've plugged in and have been charging for a minute.
Apparently you didn't read my post. I had no idea that this 50% full thing was in place since the beginning, but knew about the other conditions for idle fees. Either way, I'm over it so let this thread die.

But I can't wait for the day when there are enough Supercharger stations to go around so idle fees won't have to exist.
 
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Apparently you didn't read my post. I had no idea that this 50% full thing was in place since the beginning, but knew about the other conditions for idle fees. Either way, I'm over it so let this thread die.

But I can't wait for the day when there are enough Supercharger stations to go around so idle fees won't have to exist.
Never happen.
 
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Apparently you didn't read my post. I had no idea that this 50% full thing was in place since the beginning, but knew about the other conditions for idle fees. Either way, I'm over it so let this thread die.

But I can't wait for the day when there are enough Supercharger stations to go around so idle fees won't have to exist.

Never happen.
Apparently you didn't like my "Never Happen" reply; and that's fine. I've only been in the "game" since 2016 about 4 years after S production began. There were maybe 100,000 Teslas world wide at the time. Now they crank out that many in a year. Idle fees began when it was evident that some people felt entitled to use a charger as their own parking spot because they were ignorant or arrogant or whatever. Unfortunately, it's not only ICE vehicles that can "ICE" the spots. As a Californian you're well aware of lines and waits.
Posts numbers 10,11,13 in this thread (as well as others) all explain it better than I and pretty much support my contention that idle fees will always exist, like it or not (my post included). If you do wait for the day idle fees don't exist, please do it somewhere other than a charging spot. We will all thank you.:)
 
But idle fees will go away, once there are more charging stations than gas stations.
While there is a case to be made for this eventually becoming reality, I don't think it is likely. What is your rationale for thinking that this will eventually happen?

I'll tell you why I don't think this is likely: making money or even breaking even on fast charging is very difficult because you are essentially competing with very inexpensive home/workplace charging. With fastcharging, you have to worry about demand fees (or on-site storage to mitigate those fees), and the only way to minimize those fees/costs is to spread them out among a whole lot of users, and to do this, you need as high a utilization as possible at your site. If too many sites are built too close together in the same area, neither will be able to be competitive because they have to recoup the demand fees among half the normal traffic. One will ultimately have to close to bring things back into balance. An equilibrium will be reached where each site is going to have heavy enough utilization to be able to competitively recoup their demand fees, and they won't want to have stalls blocked by non-revenue producing vehicles.

One alternate reality is that special tariffs are created for fastcharging sites, but really, the problem just shifts to the utility, so it doesn't seem like that is a sustainable outcome. And the very best case is that even if this happens, it will probably be 5 years after we stop seeing huge increases in the numbers of EVs on the road each year (until then, the industry will be scrambling just to install enough fastchargers to keep up). With the vehicle fleet turnover taking 15 or so years, this kind of plentiful fastcharging station scenario probably wouldn't happen for another 20 years.
 
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You don't. It's an act of grace on Tesla's part, not something you've "owned" or were owed as part of your vehicle purchase. It's granted so that people who aren't aware of idle fees are warned before they actually end up getting penalized, not as a one-time "get-out-of-jail-free card" that comes with the car. Whether you were exposed to idle fees for a "legitimate" reason (or not), or whether it was Tesla's fault and not your fault (or not), is all irrelevant. It sucks a bit for you, but the point is that you've now received your warning. You know about idle fees and therefore you no longer qualify for a further waiver.
Got my 2022 refreshed three weeks ago. I don't remember seeing any mentioning of idle fee. How much is it and when does it start? Is there a grace time, i.e. when the charging stop to meter starting? I missed my 2014 MS with lifetime free Supercharging.
 
I don't remember seeing any mentioning of idle fee. How much is it and when does it start? Is there a grace time, i.e. when the charging stop to meter starting?
Comment number 10 right here in this thread on page 1 has the link to Tesla's idle fee page.

 
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But idle fees will go away, once there are more charging stations than gas stations.
There is no chance of that. And the reason is that this is already implemented in how the idle fees are enabled and disabled by usage, which is an indirect reflection of the quantity of stations.

When the site is less than half full, the idle fees are not turned on. So that does the thing you are talking about already. When there are enough sites that they are mostly empty most of the time, then the idle fees will not be in effect during those times.
 
The reason you're not getting a whole lotta love from this thread is nothing against you - It's simply because there's not enough Superchargers to go around for everyone to charge for as long as they want. And we all hate lines for charging.

In an ideal world, there would be 50+ charging stalls at every single offramp (wouldn't that be nice?) no idle fees, and absolutely zero wait times, anywhere, anytime. But we're still far away, and sadly, while cars are being produced faster every year, charging stations are not, so I actually think its getting worse, not better.

So, for the benefit of everyone, (including you!!), and to minimize this ever happening, charge to 80% (always), and then get in your car, and continue on to wherever you're going, because you have no idea how full a Supercharger can get. I've seen a 24 stall station fill up from three to 24 cars in less than five minutes.
Is there a system to get in waiting line when all the stalls are occupied and there are several cars waiting? Wouldn't it be nice also if each stall shows a number remaining to completion so that each waiting in line knows which one will become open next?
 
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It's an informal line - the Tesla's queue up in a single line, some distance away from the charging stalls, so the person first-in-line has a clear view of all the stalls. As soon as one car finishes charging, then the first-in-line proceeds to that empty charger. That's the way it is for the ones I've seen, I hope its like that for all the others. It's not surprising that almost all Tesla owners are decent, well-mannered people that can come up with a solution for this issue.
 
Even so, this is one area that I wish Tesla would improve. I've been to several Supercharger stations where if you were the 10th person to arrive at an 8 stall site, the layout of the site may not make it obvious that there was a 9th vehicle there waiting (i.e. there are two separate places where a queue may start, not completely visible from each other).

And even at a V2 site that's not full, but more than 50% full, I once parked my car to the side to get out so as to politely inquire with the other drivers about which one of them had already tapered down so that I wouldn't impede my paired partner's charging (and get the best rate myself), but before I could do that, another driver drove up and just plugged in to an empty stall (maybe it was karma, but after they did that I got the answer I was looking for and paired up with a car that was just finishing charging, so I got 100% of the pair, while the other newcomer had to share!)
 
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But idle fees will go away, once there are more charging stations than gas stations.
Even if this happens numerically, that will never remove the need for idle fees. They may relax the time before idle fees trigger, but there will always be a limit, simply based on the selfishness of some people. Without idle fees, some people (we all know the types) will treat SC bays as parking spots while they go to dinner.
 
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It's an informal line - the Tesla's queue up in a single line, some distance away from the charging stalls, so the person first-in-line has a clear view of all the stalls. As soon as one car finishes charging, then the first-in-line proceeds to that empty charger. That's the way it is for the ones I've seen, I hope its like that for all the others. It's not surprising that almost all Tesla owners are decent, well-mannered people that can come up with a solution for this issue.
That would be nice. The ones I had visited are in different configurations. Vertical parking spots opposite to the charges. Essential, not charging vehicles are facing charging ones face to face. So, when one leaves, who should make the first move is awkward. I do agree most Tesla owners are decent. If there is any conflicts, it is misunderstanding or a lack of established etiquette.
 
That would be nice. The ones I had visited are in different configurations. Vertical parking spots opposite to the charges. Essential, not charging vehicles are facing charging ones face to face. So, when one leaves, who should make the first move is awkward. I do agree most Tesla owners are decent. If there is any conflicts, it is misunderstanding or a lack of established etiquette.
I still don’t get why the cars cant create a virtual line themselves .. thus allowing people to know the wait time and park and/or shop until their number comes up. Pretty simple to coordinate since all the cars can talk to Tesla.
 
I still don’t get why the cars cant create a virtual line themselves .. thus allowing people to know the wait time and park and/or shop until their number comes up. Pretty simple to coordinate since all the cars can talk to Tesla.
I have been advocating for a reservation system (a bit different than just a virtual line) for a while. The feedback I've gotten is that it's either unnecessary, impossible to implement, or inherently unfair. Ironically, such a system would create the opposite of an idle fee: a no-show fee!

It does seem like if one was navigating to a Supercharger, with an expected arrival time, the system should be able to reserve a slot or place in line more or less automatically for you in advance of your arrival. Once enabled, you would be assigned a slot at say 15 minutes before arrival. At that point, in the event that there is only one open stall available and someone without a reservation pulls up, the stall will not initiate a charge (they should have made their own reservation en route to the Supercharger). If you fail to show within a 5 minute grace period, or cancel inside the 15 minute window, and the one empty stall situation exists, you would be assessed a no-show fee and your reservation cancelled (opening up the stall for the next reservation holder or people that just show up without a reservation).

Your virtual line idea is basically a subset of this concept, except you are assigned a slot on site.

The idea is not without its challenges:

What do you do about physically damaged, ICEd, or inaccessible stalls that Tesla can't automatically detect that you might get assigned to?

What is the UI? Is it completely automatic, and if so, how does it differentiate between a car just driving up to the shopping center that hosts the site without intending to plug in? Instead, would there be a prompt that detected that you were in the area (or navigating to the site) and asked if you wanted to join the queue/reserve a slot?

How does this all work if/when the station is open to non-Tesla vehicles? Is all this done through the app? Is it manual? automatic? semi-automatic?

How about those that need pull-in stalls, or handicapped stalls, or a stall with a CCS adapter (see previous one)?

How do spontaneous arrivals slot in? Are they required to grab a reservation/queue slot? What happens if they cannot (poor signal)?

I don't think any of those are insurmountable (except maybe the first one--that worries me) but they are things that would have to be thought out.
 
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I have been advocating for a reservation system (a bit different than just a virtual line) for a while. The feedback I've gotten is that it's either unnecessary, impossible to implement, or inherently unfair. Ironically, such a system would create the opposite of an idle fee: a no-show fee!

It does seem like if one was navigating to a Supercharger, with an expected arrival time, the system should be able to reserve a slot or place in line more or less automatically for you in advance of your arrival. Once enabled, you would be assigned a slot at say 15 minutes before arrival. At that point, in the event that there is only one open stall available and someone without a reservation pulls up, the stall will not initiate a charge (they should have made their own reservation en route to the Supercharger). If you fail to show within a 5 minute grace period, or cancel inside the 15 minute window, and the one empty stall situation exists, you would be assessed a no-show fee and your reservation cancelled (opening up the stall for the next reservation holder or people that just show up without a reservation).

Your virtual line idea is basically a subset of this concept, except you are assigned a slot on site.

The idea is not without its challenges:

What do you do about physically damaged, ICEd, or inaccessible stalls that Tesla can't automatically detect that you might get assigned to?

What is the UI? Is it completely automatic, and if so, how does it differentiate between a car just driving up to the shopping center that hosts the site without intending to plug in? Instead, would there be a prompt that detected that you were in the area (or navigating to the site) and asked if you wanted to join the queue/reserve a slot?

How does this all work if/when the station is open to non-Tesla vehicles? Is all this done through the app? Is it manual? automatic? semi-automatic?

How about those that need pull-in stalls, or handicapped stalls, or a stall with a CCS adapter (see previous one)?

How do spontaneous arrivals slot in? Are they required to grab a reservation/queue slot? What happens if they cannot (poor signal)?

I don't think any of those are insurmountable (except maybe the first one--that worries me) but they are things that would have to be thought out.
May be the solution is to have more SuperChargers with more regular vacancies and let the vehicle take you to the ones that there is no line.
 
May be the solution is to have more SuperChargers with more regular vacancies and let the vehicle take you to the ones that there is no line.
That's the case almost all of the time anyway today, but as the market becomes more saturated with EVs, maybe it starts to become a tradeoff between an expensive hardware solution (installing more redundant charging sites) and a relatively cheap software solution.

And as I said earlier in this thread, in order to be economically viable, charging stations are going to have to be relatively busy, so you're probably always going to have brief spikes in activity (perhaps around busy travel days such as holidays) where such a solution is more viable than creating redundant charging station sites that get very little usage.