IDLE Fees questions

[RDoc]

Which is why it should be a straight idle fee regardless of usage. Just like the EA chargers.

Really! To expect Tesla to have the remotest idea of which of the Superchargers are in use is completely unreasonable.

They'd have to have people at each Supercharger location 24x7 to count and record the cars as they came and went while keeping track of everyone's charging! At night there would be kerosene and wick expenses for the lanterns to read the plates. And, on top of all that, they'd incur all the postage charges required to send the ledger books back to California, and then pay all the clerks there to tally it all up!

Totally ridiculous.

 

[brkaus]

@RDoc it’s not the technology. They can get kerosene lamps on eBay and build watch towers out of boring bricks.

I’ve watched smaller (Columbus, TX) supercharger go from near empty to full and back to near empty in 30 minutes. If someone complains in that window and that someone wants to summon every owner that was there at the time because they don’t believe it...

Just move the car.

I will add - I believe idle fees should start when car is finished charging OR the initial estimated charge time. Whichever is later. To accommodate the variability.

 

[Rocky_H]

They'd have to have people at each Supercharger location 24x7 to count and record the cars as they came and went while keeping track of everyone's charging!

...or they could use the fact that every one of their cars is connected to the internet all the time over the cellular network and just know from a computer lookup in their database which cars were there and charging, without any human presence or interaction.

 

[gnuarm]

Then do not plan to stay in the mall for hours. Plan to stay for the length of time you need to charge. This way you are going back to the car, not to move it, but to continue your journey.

Why do people get so worked up over an issue? The vast majority of stations barely ever get half full and not being there to remove your car from the charger for a few minutes has no impact on anyone. The guy has clearly stated his concern and seems to be very reasonable about it. Yet people keep going on and on about him being jerk because he isn't acting the way he should at a congested charger in California.

What gives? He is just asking for a better app to give him the information he needs so he can properly be courteous and clear his spot without pointlessly inconveniencing himself. Just like sitting in a at a gas pump sorting out his receipts or something before he moves his car. As long as no one is behind him he's fine. When someone pulls up behind him he can move and let them have the pump. He is asking for a rear view mirror in the charging app. That's all.

 

[gnuarm]

Which is why it should be a straight idle fee regardless of usage. Just like the EA chargers.

The reason the idle fee is not imposed all the time is because of exactly the reason why the OP wants to know when the station is half full or not... to minimize his inconvenience in addition to minimizing the inconvenience to others.

I suppose Tesla has some document regarding the use of Superchargers somewhere on the web site. But it seems pretty iffy to immediately cut someone off for having an idle fee on their account. I travel in my car a lot and if I incur an idle fee which I might not even be informed of because of the vagaries of cell phone signals until I was committed to making it to the next Supercharger only to find I am stuck in whatever crap location I am in that would be extremely bad. I suppose I could call support and pay over the phone, but it can be an hour just getting them to answer!

Yeah, given the intermittent nature of the notices, the very poor accounting of Supercharger bay usage and the potential harm this policy can create, I expect they will either revoke this policy or get their app together!

 

[KJD]

Why do people get so worked up over an issue? The vast majority of stations barely ever get half full and not being there to remove your car from the charger for a few minutes has no impact on anyone. The guy has clearly stated his concern and seems to be very reasonable about it. Yet people keep going on and on about him being jerk because he isn't acting the way he should at a congested charger in California.

What gives? He is just asking for a better app to give him the information he needs so he can properly be courteous and clear his spot without pointlessly inconveniencing himself. Just like sitting in a at a gas pump sorting out his receipts or something before he moves his car. As long as no one is behind him he's fine. When someone pulls up behind him he can move and let them have the pump. He is asking for a rear view mirror in the charging app. That's all.

And this is from the person who complains endlessly about there are not being enough supercharger stations.

 

[KJD]

The reason the idle fee is not imposed all the time is because of exactly the reason why the OP wants to know when the station is half full or not... to minimize his inconvenience in addition to minimizing the inconvenience to others.

I suppose Tesla has some document regarding the use of Superchargers somewhere on the web site. But it seems pretty iffy to immediately cut someone off for having an idle fee on their account. I travel in my car a lot and if I incur an idle fee which I might not even be informed of because of the vagaries of cell phone signals until I was committed to making it to the next Supercharger only to find I am stuck in whatever crap location I am in that would be extremely bad. I suppose I could call support and pay over the phone, but it can be an hour just getting them to answer!

Yeah, given the intermittent nature of the notices, the very poor accounting of Supercharger bay usage and the potential harm this policy can create, I expect they will either revoke this policy or get their app together!

When the car is done charging just get out there and move the dang thing. No idle fees that way.

 

[LMichel]

My issue is that Tesla is charging me an idle fee when A) They state that they will only do so when the charger is 50% (or greater) occupied) and B) I will get a notification that I am approaching charge complete. Neither of those items took place. Essentially, Tesla is lying (yes, lying in print) to me and then extorting money from me to charge my car. They have denied my request to waive this $18 fee and claim that the SC was 50% occupied. Something of which I've NEVER seen at *any* charger in western New York. Not Buffalo, not Syracuse, not Binghampton, Corning, none of them.

I was at that same charger again two days ago. I felt compelled to stay right in the car because I might not get notified and get idle-fee charged again. Ridiculous! Sitting in the shopping mall parking lot, at the height of Christmas shopping season. I charged for 42 minutes and NOT ONE other Tesla showed up to charge. Now, I did have a guy pull up in his BMW and ask me some general Tesla questions. Actually, where I live, that type of thing happens a lot. Now....When he finally asked me how much it cost to charge my car. I was very quick to smile and say "Well, last time I was here, it cost eighteen bucks". The expression on his face said it all. No more considering a Tesla for him! Gee, Tesla - you think your actions are good for business??

Next, I will be going back to that SC and charging my car with camera rolling. We'll watch the idle fee come to me and we'll also see that at no point in time was the SC ever near 50% capacity. I soooo hope it goes viral.

Tesla has completely deflated all the excitement I continued to have after two years of owning my MS.

 

[gnuarm]

Why is it that people read each other's posts but fail to acknowledge the validity of the comments. No one has said users should be able to monopolize the charging stall. In some areas charger congestion is a real problem. But in other places we are a few years from congestion being an issue.

This is about the difference between impacting other users and having to plan your meal and other activities around the unpredictable timing and unreliable operation of a piece of machinery when it impacts no one.

Why can't some people acknowledge that?

 

[brkaus]

@LMichel i believe you and think Tesla should return the $18.

@gnuarm i acknowledge it isn’t an issue in most areas. But I feel good habits should be practiced from the start. Supercharger, destination charger, or any public charger.

 

[gnuarm]

@LMichel i believe you and think Tesla should return the $18.

@gnuarm i acknowledge it isn’t an issue in most areas. But I feel good habits should be practiced from the start. Supercharger, destination charger, or any public charger.

I agree, the good habit in this case is removing your car from the charger when it might impact others.

 

[brkaus]

I agree, the good habit in this case is removing your car from the charger when it might impact others.

Yes, but it becomes easy to get lazy on the topic and minimize what one thinks may impact others. We are a selfish society after all.

 

[gnuarm]

Yes, but it becomes easy to get lazy on the topic and minimize what one thinks may impact others. We are a selfish society after all.

Speak for yourself when you say we are selfish. For two years now I cut off my air conditioner during the summer peak usage times solely so the power company doesn't need to pay peak rates for that power. Now that I have the Tesla to charge, I've gone to time of use billing to save a bit in my pocket while extending the peak reduction to the other 8 months of the year.

I don't know why you have a burr about the superchargers. Tesla has a policy in place to mitigate congestion with idle fees. People now complain that the technology isn't working properly. That's justified no matter how it conflicts with your view of how the world should work. Don't complain to us, complain to Tesla if you don't like their policy. That's what we are doing about the poor technology.

 

[brkaus]

I have complained to Tesla. Just like you. I’ve also commented here, Just like you.

Somehow your comments are valid and my comments are not?

 

[gnuarm]

I have complained to Tesla. Just like you. I’ve also commented here, Just like you.

Somehow your comments are valid and my comments are not?

We are a selfish society after all.

good habits should be practiced from the start

Just move the car.

I guess I take umbrage to what you are complaining about. You seem to feel people are the problem.

 

[LMichel]

I'm starting to see other improper SC idle fee threads starting to rapidly pop up on this forum.
Here's the email thread from Tesla Support (in reverse chronological order)

Fine,
You send me the VINs that were in that location during that time and, if that turns out to be true, I will pay Tesla 10X the idle fee. $180 !
I have NEVER seen that supercharger have more than TWO cars parked in it. And mine was always the other car. I don't live where there are many Tesla's. Most people out in my area don't even know what they are!!

I was a very happy Tesla owner until the happened.
Lance Michel
Rochester, NY

=================================================================
From: "CustomerSupport"
To: "lmichel"
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:30:08 PM
Subject: Re: You Received a Supercharger Idle Fee [ ref:_00D506dxX.

Thank you for contacting Tesla Support. We apologize for the delayed response, we'll do our best to assist.

Thank you for explaining the situation to us. The first idle fee that was waived was done automatically, and that was in September 2018. Unfortunately the system doesn't allow for idles fees to be waived after the initial one is waived.

The system cataloged that the station you were at was at 50% capacity, which then applied the fee in your situation.

If you have any further questions you can reach the Service Support team at (877) 798-37 52.

Best regards,
--

Albert M. | Tesla Support
12832 Frontrunner Blvd., Draper, UT 84020
p. (877) 798-3752 | [email protected]


--------------- Original Message ---------------
From: lmichel
Sent: 12/14/2018 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: reply-fef7107473660c-286_
Subject: Re: You Received a Supercharger Idle Fee

I was the ONLY vehicle in the Supercharger when I arrived and when I left. This particular Supercharger has never had 50% occupancy or greater at anytime I have charged there.
Your policy clearly states:
============================
Supercharger Idle Fee

We designed the Supercharger network to enable a seamless, enjoyable road trip experience. Therefore, we understand that it can be frustrating to arrive at a station only to discover fully charged Tesla cars occupying spaces. To create a better experience for all owners, we’re introducing a fleet-wide idle fee that aims to increase Supercharger availability.

We envision a future where cars move themselves once fully charged, enhancing network efficiency and the customer experience even further. Until then, we ask that vehicles be moved from the Supercharger once fully charged. A customer would never leave a car parked by the pump at a gas station and the same thinking applies with Superchargers.

The Tesla app allows owners to remotely monitor their vehicle, alerting them when their charge is nearly complete and again once fully charged. For every additional minute a car remains connected to the Supercharger, it will incur an idle fee. If the car is moved within 5 minutes, the fee is waived. Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at least 50% full, and double when the station is 100% full. To be clear, this is purely about increasing customer happiness and we hope to never make any money from it.

==================================
Please waive this fee.

 

[brkaus]

I guess I take umbrage to what you are complaining about. You seem to feel people are the problem.

Thanks.

I think I’m jaded by all the inappropriate use of the J1772 spots around me. I constantly see people parked for convenience, many times not plugged in. If people cannot get that correct, I do not see them honoring the “will not impact others” motto at superchargers.

Sadly, it feels like “everyone for themselves” sometimes . Hopefully I’m wrong.

 

[gnuarm]

Thanks.

I think I’m jaded by all the inappropriate use of the J1772 spots around me. I constantly see people parked for convenience, many times not plugged in. If people cannot get that correct, I do not see them honoring the “will not impact others” motto at superchargers.

Sadly, it feels like “everyone for themselves” sometimes . Hopefully I’m wrong.

That is why there are idle fees. But the policy is to only impose the fee when it actually impacts someone, not because the system failed to be able to count to 3 correctly.

 

[Mayhem]

It's funny when you ask a question about idle fees and all you get is soapboxers telling you how you should behave, when you don't actually disagree with their point of view. Sheesh. Is everyone looking to argue something or trying to lecture someone? Answer my questions or simply move on.... please. @ewoodrick , @zanary

I've seen the a-holes at SC's ruining it for folks and my goal is not to game the system. My goal is how to be best informed on how to react when my charge is done. And to that point, I think the app needs the bars (% occupied like in the nav) so you know if idle fees would be applicable or not.

Seems like all my initial concerns have been addressed. I did not know that the app already does (or is supposed to) tell you when the station is full enough to start accruing idle fees. Also with the station occupancy indication on the latest version of the app, I'm really satisfied that I have all the info I need (provided it is correct, sorry for your frustration @LMichel )This is a from a tweet in 2017:

 

[gnuarm]

Seems like all my initial concerns have been addressed. I did not know that the app already does (or is supposed to) tell you when the station is full enough to start accruing idle fees. Also with the station occupancy indication on the latest version of the app, I'm really satisfied that I have all the info I need (provided it is correct, sorry for your frustration @LMichel )This is a from a tweet in 2017:
View attachment 363626

Except for the fact that the notifications are not fully reliable. Combine that with the station occupancy not being accurate and you have a perfect storm for bogus fees.