If installing 2 L2 40amp chargers(14-50), can you share the same wiring(4/3) coming from a 60 amp breaker?

[EvJourney]

I have a detached garage. So I ended up having a 100amp sub panel installed. I’ll run a 60 amp circuit that’ll hardwire the level 2 charger. This allows me to easily add another 60 amp circuit if/when we decide to get another EV. detached or not, this may work for you as well for future proofing.

Note: My main panel is 200amps. Plenty of free space. If we add a second 60 amp circuit connected to a 2nd charger then we will likely not be able to run both chargers at 48amps simultaneously. However it would be no problem running them when we are sleeping. Another option would simply be to charge at a lower amp.

 

[mswlogo]

I have a detached garage. So I ended up having a 100amp sub panel installed. I’ll run a 60 amp circuit that’ll hardwire the level 2 charger. This allows me to easily add another 60 amp circuit if/when we decide to get another EV. detached or not, this may work for you as well for future proofing.

Note: My main panel is 200amps. Plenty of free space. If we add a second 60 amp circuit connected to a 2nd charger then we will likely not be able to run both chargers at 48amps simultaneously. However it would be no problem running them when we are sleeping. Another option would simply be to charge at a lower amp.

You’ll have to limit them both to 40 A. Now if you use Wall Connectors you could leave them at 48 A and it will automatically load balance and never exceed 80% of your sub panel.

 

[STS-134]

Thanks for all the input, very informative!! I'm new to EV and this is my first 100% EV. I had a Prius plug in so that's not very comparable. After reading everyone's comments, I think I'll return the Maxi and get the Grizzl_E Duo. I'm not too worried about sharing this 40amp charger and charging at the same time as I only have 1 MY and the plug-in(if rumors are true) Sienna, I'll get that in 24 or 25. Should be sufficient right? My commute is no more than 100 miles a day 3 days a week plus other usages on weekends and whatever... The plug-in probably only needs 8k miles a year.

My MSP is 200amp.

So there's one more thing you should take into consideration: the different connectors. You seem to be aware of this already, but unlike any other EV, there's probably a bigger difference in the experience of how you plug in a Tesla connector vs. a J1772 connector.

Tesla connector - Plugging In:
1. Remove connector from WC or grab UMC connector.
2. Make sure car is unlocked. Press button on top of connector. Charge port door opens.
3. Plug connector into car.

Tesla connector - Removal:
1. Make sure car is unlocked. Press button on top of connector. Connector will unlatch.
2. Remove connector from car.
3. Put connector in dock.

J1772 connector - Plugging in:
1. Grab connector
*2. Take J1772 adapter and place on the end of connector
3. Make sure car is unlocked. Tap charge port to open it (alternately - open charge port in phone app, on main display, by holding down the trunk button for 2 seconds on keyfob, etc.)
4. Push the J1772 adapter + connector onto the charge port

J1772 connector - Removal:
1. Make sure car is unlocked
2. Press the J1772 connector latch to signal to the vehicle that the connector needs to be removed but DO NOT pull the connector or adapter out. Vehicle will unlock the adapter, now allowing you to remove it.
3. Grab the adapter with one hand and the J1772 connector with the other and remove both of them together.
*4. Remove the adapter from the end of the connector and put back in its usual storage place.
5. Put connector back in its usual storage place.

*As people have noted, these steps can be skipped, if you just leave the J1772 adapter on the end of the J1772 connector, although this doesn't work with all EVSEs if you want to use a built-in dock that the connector plugs into.

See also: Meet Your Model Y - Charging

Notice the difference? The Tesla connector can be plugged in and removed with one hand, while the J1772 connector and adapter requires two hands. I have both a J1772 EVSE and Tesla WC in my garage and I prefer to use the WC to charge the Tesla for that reason. It's way, way easier. Is this a deal breaker for J1772 EVSEs? Certainly not. But given a choice, I really prefer to be able to do things one handed in case I'm carrying a bunch of stuff when I get out of the car, and not have to futz around with adapters when I am doing the most common type of charging (in my own garage).

 

[davewill]

Nevermind

 

[mswlogo]

I was using a J1772 extension on my Wall Connector and I was able to pull it out with one hand. There was enough friction on the adapter. And when I clicked the button on the J1772 handle the Tesla immediately unlocked.

I also had to put the Wall Connector in legacy mode. I forget what went wrong when I didn’t have it legacy mode. I think it wouldn’t charge.

 

[E46M3]

I like the TWC but this would be a much simpler install. One circuit, one charger, etc. Each has its pros and cons of course. Another con would be a single point of failure. Whereas with the TWC if one unit fails you have a backup.

I already have a 2nd TWC (the J1772) I'm installing soon. The duo is an exciting product though...but I would never install with a 14-50.

why never with 14-50?

 

[STS-134]

why never with 14-50?

Not an approved connection method. The WC is designed to be hardwired.

 

[davewill]

why never with 14-50?

Honestly, the only real reason we have is that Tesla said so. Some other EVSEs do allow that sort of install. I think the reason is simply that Tesla didn't test it that way, so they don't want to support installs done that way.

 

[E46M3]

Not an approved connection method. The WC is designed to be hardwired.

oh.. I thought you were referring to the Duo.

 

[E46M3]

Honestly, the only real reason we have is that Tesla said so. Some other EVSEs do allow that sort of install. I think the reason is simply that Tesla didn't test it that way, so they don't want to support installs done that way.

there's no concerns with using a 3rd part charger on Tesla, right? I'm sure lots are doing the same?

 

[jcanoe]

Honestly, the only real reason we have is that Tesla said so. Some other EVSEs do allow that sort of install. I think the reason is simply that Tesla didn't test it that way, so they don't want to support installs done that way.

If you add a do-it-yourself power plug pigtail onto the Tesla Wall Connector it won't have a thermal sensor in the plug assembly.

 

[STS-134]

there's no concerns with using a 3rd part charger on Tesla, right? I'm sure lots are doing the same?

Why would there be? J1772 is a standard and Tesla vehicles support the standard. It communicates capabilities of the EVSE to the vehicle and presence of the vehicle to the EVSE using a standard protocol which any manufacturer can access: Basics of SAE J1772

The reason you'd go with a Tesla connector over J1772 is ease of use. Compatibility is not a concern.

 

[E46M3]

Why would there be? J1772 is a standard and Tesla vehicles support the standard. It communicates capabilities of the EVSE to the vehicle and presence of the vehicle to the EVSE using a standard protocol which any manufacturer can access: Basics of SAE J1772

The reason you'd go with a Tesla connector over J1772 is ease of use. Compatibility is not a concern.

I guess confused by the comments made earlier about not using 14-50 as that's not Tesla approved. Not sure if this applies to all chargers including J1772.

 

[STS-134]

I guess confused by the comments made earlier about not using 14-50 as that's not Tesla approved. Not sure if this applies to all chargers including J1772.

NEMA 14-50 is not an approved method of connecting the Wall Connector product to AC power. The Wall Connector is designed to be hardwired; it does not come with a plug. It comes with some terminals that you connect wires to.

The Mobile Connector on the other hand has a 14-50 NEMA adapter as well as adapters for many other types of outlets (the Mobile Connector itself does not have a plug on it; you buy and use an adapter that connects it to the outlet type or you can buy the entire bundle of adapters together). However the Mobile Connector itself is limited to 32A despite the 14-50 outlet being capable of up to 40A so you will only ever get 32A from it.

The Wall Connector will give you up to 48A when connected with properly sized wiring and breaker.

Both of the above will give you the experience of being able to plug in and disconnect your vehicle with one hand. However only one of them uses a 14-50 (but is limited to 32A) and the other one is hardwired. Compatibility will not be an issue no matter which EVSE you pick: Wall Connector, Mobile Connector, or third party.

 

[jcanoe]

I guess confused by the comments made earlier about not using 14-50 as that's not Tesla approved. Not sure if this applies to all chargers including J1772.

The Tesla Wall Connector and the Tesla J1772 Wall Connector are designed to be hard wired, not use a power plug. If Tesla intended the Wall Connector or J1772 Wall Connector to be able to be fitted with a plug such as the NEMA 14-50 then there would be specific instructions provided in the Tesla Wall Connector Manual for fitting a plug. This is not limited to Tesla Wall Connector or the J1772 Wall Connector. The NEC states that a power plug cannot be fitted to any electrical equipment that does not have an option for a power plug specified in the installation instructions for the equipment,

 

[240vPlug]

14-50 is another failure point in the system. I have seen way too many of them melt or the plugs melt from poor manufacturing. 14-50 are also slower (40 amps max). They also require GFCI which can cause issues.

I would never use or recommend a 14-50 for a permanent home charging installation. Others feel it's fine. The TWC can't use it of course because it's not fitted and is not supported by Tesla as an installation method.

 

[davewill]

I guess confused by the comments made earlier about not using 14-50 as that's not Tesla approved. Not sure if this applies to all chargers including J1772.

It applies to the Tesla J1772 Wall Connector. J1772 EVSEs from other manufacturers may or may not allow or come with a plug. Basically you have to check the install instructions or product pages on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Big Moe]

probably a dumb question and I'm obviously not an electrician nor am I doing this work myself. But just trying to understand and see what I can do to future proof. Thanks!

Hello: The safest way is to put a breaker in for each car and run separate power lines. Keep the power and the cars separated. No inspector in my town would give you the ok!

 

[Alan_F]

The Tesla connector can be plugged in and removed with one hand, while the J1772 connector and adapter requires two hands.

Sure, if given all the conditions you gave, but I have no truck l trouble plugging and unplugging my cars with one hand. The Grizzl-e docks hold the cable with the Tesla adapters still connected, and you don't need to hold the adapter when removing the handle if you release the button first, as that keeps the handle and adapter locked together.

In my particular circumstance, one EVSE going to a 6-50 plug made for a much cleaner install then two Tesla wall connectors hard-wired. I'm limited to 40 amps by my circuit, so either would give me the same max power. YMMV.

Also at the time the Duo was cheaper than two Tesla units, but I'm not sure that's the case anymore after Tesla dropped the price recently. There's no doubt the Tesla connector is a little more elegant, but the Duo gets the job done.

And do you think missing an app to manage this charger is a letdown? Charging a Tesla you can use the Tesla app to manage, but what if your other car is a lower-tech plug in that does not have a charging management app? But I guess just plugging both in and get 20 amp each is for the most part enough. Thanks!

Never missed having an app for the EVSE. Going forward, I doubt I'll ever own another plug-in car without its own app to manage charging.

 

[Rocky_H]

and you don't need to hold the adapter when removing the handle if you release the button first, as that keeps the handle and adapter locked together.

That doesn't always work. It doesn't on my car and many others--maybe mostly the older ones? On mine, if that handle is released, the charge port INSTANTLY locks the adapter in again, and then it won't come out with the handle. Some other cars will keep the port unlocked for a few extra seconds, so then your method can possibly work.

So people recommend the two-hand method because it's foolproof. It always works for all cars all the time. They don't want to recommend some procedure to someone that won't work.