If it isn't "range anxiety", how do I figure it out?

[steinbej]

Hi folks,

Every response to "why is my range lousy" is dismissed as range anxiety.

Let's try something different.

I'm not sure whether I'm getting appropriate range or not. How would I figure it out? Here's my latest example.

This past Tuesday (and every Tuesday), I made a familiar drive. 80 interstate highway miles at 70 mph going north, 12 miles driving around town, 80 miles south at 70 mph. 27 deg F the entire way. I started my drive at 98% (even warmed up car while still plugged in), I finished at 15%. Mild rolling hills but mostly flat on my roundtrip (this is neither the pancake-flatness of Kansas nor the mountains of Colorado). To be specific, we're talking Binghamton to Syracuse, New York, and back. 15% makes me nervous. You could call it range anxiety. Some days I arrive home with 8%, others 16-19%. But the question remains: how do I figure out whether this is appropriate range or if something is wrong? I've seen the "realworld range" videos of Model Y driving 70 mph from full to empty, maxxing out at 260-275 miles depending on the video, but these are all in comfy 70-80 deg F weather. I know I'm supposed to get worse performance in the cold. But 27 deg F is not even real cold up here. It's gonna get worse.

I know one Model Y owner in my area. He reports he gets around 290 miles range in the summer and 230 in the winter. I'm blowing most of my battery on just 172 miles. But I have no other comparisons.

How do I figure out whether it's appropriate range or not?

Thanks,
-- Josh

 

[jcanoe]

You can run some scenarios using ABetterRoutePlanner. The app can be used on your phone or there is a web version. Highly recommended. Also, assume 25% loss of range in winter (minimum.) Say you have a real-world 280 mile range in summer (at 70 MPH this is achievable.) Subtract 70 miles and you are at 210 miles. Then add some loss of range for heat and hills.

If you are running on winter tires then expect less range.

You can add to your remaining range buffer by doing any/all of the following:

Drive at 65 instead of 70, the difference in lowering your energy use, as expressed in Wh/mile, will be significant over what are the longest legs of your trips.

Keep the heat turned off. Dress warmly and use the seat heaters; curse that there is no steering wheel heater.

Keep up your tire pressure to the recommended pressure.

Find a way to charge at Level 2 while at your destination. Even an hour of charging; 200V to 240V and 30A or 32A will net you more than 20 miles of range.

 

[zannman]

Range is very dependent on temperature. A 2019 Model 3 (pre-Heat pump) is good for about 66% efficiency at 27*F. The good news is that at around 10*F I'm still at 60% efficient.

For your car that would mean around a 190 mile range at 10 degrees assuming your drag losses are higher and heat pump is way more efficient than my car... Having that much reserve at 172 miles in winter is pretty appropriate.

You might ask people to share their Model Y "Temperature Efficiency" charts from TeslaFi. That would give you an idea whether my 60-66% range is valid at your temperatures.

 

[ftmaybe]

How do I figure out whether it's appropriate range or not?

set a trip meter and look at your wh/mile after the trip is over (or during, really). that should give you an idea of how the car is doing. Also you'd want to pay attention to any battery loss while the car is parked (my wife's model 3 can lose 5-10% of battery running sentry mode all day while she is at work).

I'm not sure what the usable capacity of the battery in your Y (should be lots of people here who could chime in on that). but let's say it is supposed to be 70kwh. if you're running ~333wh/mile, that's 3 miles per kw, 3*70 = 210 miles (if you used the entire battery).

for example, my wife's model 3 can get ~225wh/mile in good conditions on the freeway. however if it is cold and the hvac is running (or super hot where I am), it can go to ~270wh/mile. at 225/mile that's 4.44 miles per kw with maybe 45kw usable, 4.44*45 = 200 miles. however 270/mile would be 3.7 miles per kw or 3.7*45 = 166 miles.


Also - there is a dashed line for "rated" energy usage on your consumption graph. if you are well over that line (entirely possible on the freeway), you are going to get less miles than advertised. Often .... quite a bit less in my experience.

 

[mark95476]

People all over the world have been driving Teslas for years and it's not like winter is unique only to your location.

I think you've got the right idea:
You can do a controlled test where you and some other Y do the same drive following each other and compare results.

You're probably getting the appropriate range for your particular situation.

Hi folks,

Every response to "why is my range lousy" is dismissed as range anxiety.

Let's try something different.

I'm not sure whether I'm getting appropriate range or not. How would I figure it out? Here's my latest example.

This past Tuesday (and every Tuesday), I made a familiar drive. 80 interstate highway miles at 70 mph going north, 12 miles driving around town, 80 miles south at 70 mph. 27 deg F the entire way. I started my drive at 98% (even warmed up car while still plugged in), I finished at 15%. Mild rolling hills but mostly flat on my roundtrip (this is neither the pancake-flatness of Kansas nor the mountains of Colorado). To be specific, we're talking Binghamton to Syracuse, New York, and back. 15% makes me nervous. You could call it range anxiety. Some days I arrive home with 8%, others 16-19%. But the question remains: how do I figure out whether this is appropriate range or if something is wrong? I've seen the "realworld range" videos of Model Y driving 70 mph from full to empty, maxxing out at 260-275 miles depending on the video, but these are all in comfy 70-80 deg F weather. I know I'm supposed to get worse performance in the cold. But 27 deg F is not even real cold up here. It's gonna get worse.

I know one Model Y owner in my area. He reports he gets around 290 miles range in the summer and 230 in the winter. I'm blowing most of my battery on just 172 miles. But I have no other comparisons.

How do I figure out whether it's appropriate range or not?

 

[scissorfighter]

But 27 deg F is not even real cold up here. It's gonna get worse.

Yup. Your efficiency sounds about right for the conditions, at least compared to mine. I’ve seen my Y sometimes in the 450 wh/m range at temps around 27F, worse if it’s actually snowing and the road surface is poor. But my average for that temp is 360-400.

 

[acarney]

That means you’re using about 362 Wh/mi, that seems a little high, but not “something is wrong with the car” high. Full range would be ~207 mi for you or about 64% of rated range. Absolutely not unheard of in below freezing temperatures.

Some “easy” checks...

Stock tires or did you put winter tires on?
Making the most use of seat heaters and set cabin to 68 or 69 F?
Tire pressures at least 42 psi, possibly 45 psi on winter tires as long as max pressure of them is 50+ psi.

Precondition...
I think a lot of people think preconditioning means get the cabin up to 70 to 75F, easily done in 3 to 5 minutes. That’s comfort preconditioning; you jump in a nice warm car and you saved some energy warming that air up. However, your battery, coolant, and majority of the mass of the vehicle isn’t really up to temp. Try preconditioning for like 20 to 30min and see if that improves things. You’ll get the mass of battery up to temp and “bank” some of that heat energy that the heat pump can then scavenge from as needed when driving. Eventually the car will have to balance keeping the pack and cabin warm, but initially the heat energy you pump into that battery will be excess.

I would still expect 300 to 325 Wh/mi depending on speed in those kinds of temps, 230 to 250 mi of range on a fully exhausted battery. Better than that and you’re doing really good.

Edit: this is all with dry roads and mild to no wind. If you have blustery winters than that is going to add to drag a lot. Also, wet roads aren’t too bad, but any standing water (especially consistent puddles in the ruts of the road) hurt a lot... slush or snow and it’s shocking how much the energy required jumps up!

 

[Blue2018]

Sounds reasonable, also depends on your interior temp. I usually assume 50% range in the winter to be safe. Heat pump will make little difference at 27 F.

last night I was able to get to almost rated efficiency in 35 F doing the following:

Drive the speed limit, which was between 55 and 65. Keep temp in car at 62 F. Switch into N for coasting downhill when steep enough.

One more thing: going too slow (like 45 or below like city driving) is actually detrimental to efficiency in the cold as you have the constant loss over time for heating, which translates to a higher loss per mile at low speeds.

 

[Snow Drift]

1) set navigation to your destination
2) open Energy app on dash
3) click Trip at top of window
4) the car guesses the usage and shows your actual vs the guess. See how efficient you are while driving. Orange is worse, green is more efficient than expected.

Also, going 70 mph in the cold isn’t helping.

 

[DanDi58]

@steinbej, I'm pretty familiar with that stretch of I-81, having lived in Endicott and spent time in Syracuse on a regular basis. It's pretty windy as well, so that will affect your range, as others have noted. I also recall a few hilly stretches, just north of Port Dickinson and again north of Tully. All impactors on range.

 

[Jimt29]

Yup. Your efficiency sounds about right for the conditions, at least compared to mine. I’ve seen my Y sometimes in the 450 wh/m range at temps around 27F, worse if it’s actually snowing and the road surface is poor. But my average for that temp is 360-400.

View attachment 623472

What app creates that graph?

 

[Puma2020]

That range seems a bit low to me. I am in New Hampshire and can easily do 175 miles and not go from 98% down to 15%.
On the screen, Take a screen shot of your 30 minute energy in the "Energy App", page 76 of the owners manual.
Take one at the start, in the middle, at the half way point, on the way back and at the end.
Note: Clean screen of fingerprints first!
attached is my energy screen shot of the Y going up and down Mt Washington in July (and sadly fingerprints).
That showed only 314 Wh/mi which was lower than I expected. I am averaging around town about 235 wh/mi.

Post those images, and also one showing your tire pressures.
Warming up the car for 30 minutes to help warm up the battery wouldn't be bad for the next trip.
Are you carrying a lot of weight? 6 people or maybe perhaps you are carrying 500 gold bars (400 troy ounces)?

 

[scabbotts]

Looks like my efficiency is pretty similar given the temperatures. I am located in Maine and other than your lake effect snow days we are probably similar.

 

[scissorfighter]

What app creates that graph?

Teslamate. Highly recommended.
adriankumpf/teslamate

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I have snows on my MY. 18in aero wheels with appropriately sized snows. I lost a aero hubcap over this winter, so I have been running without the wheel covers. I actually noticed a drop in range without the wheel covers. (As it seems) But the short and curly of things is, anything I’d say under 35f is going to see a hit in range

 

[Jimt29]

Teslamate. Highly recommended.
adriankumpf/teslamate

Way outside of my knowledge base. But thanks.

 

[steinbej]

Now that the cooler weather has arrived and I almost ran out of charge, I decided to get analytical. Every Tuesday I drive north to Syracuse (80 miles) and back south to Binghamton, NY, almost entirely on Interstate 81. This week I had to bring my child to a doctor's appointment north of Syracuse, then drop him back at school, do an errand, pick him up again, etc., which is a bit more than the usual up-and-back that I'm used to. When I realized I was not going to make it back home, I charged up 25% more at the quite-inconvenient supercharger north of Syracuse. I left with about 97% charge and returned home with 21%, which would have been -4% had I not charged for 25% mid-journey. Google Maps multi-destination tool shows me this was 204 miles (here is route). Most of driving was 70 mph. Temp outside was around 37°F or so, which for Upstate NY is not cold. And I blew more than 100% charge on 204 miles in my Model Y 2021 which is exactly 1 year old (and I've been complaining about crappy range for 12 months).

204 highway miles, mid-30's°F temp, on appx. 101% MY charge?
-- JS

 

[SageBrush]

^^ You have to start eliminating variables to figure out where the energy is going.

I suggest:
Charge up at a Supercharger to warm up the battery. Precondition your cabin at the same time.
Then take a 20 mile A->B->A highway drive at 70 mph without cabin heating. Seat heater and/or wheel heater are low drain and can be used.
Pick a day when wind is low and the roads are dry.

Report back here the drop in rated miles over the 40 mile drive

 

[jcanoe]

When faced with a longer drive in cold temperatures slow down. If you slow down, 5 or more MPH this will reduce your energy consumption (Wh/mile) enough that you probably won't need to stop to reach your home or next charging stop. This can extend your range significantly, the sooner you start driving a bit slower the further you will be able to travel on a charge. (The Tesla EPA combined city/highway range estimate (326 miles) is based on a maximum speed of 45 MPH, not 70 MPH.)

 

[DanDi58]

Now that the cooler weather has arrived and I almost ran out of charge, I decided to get analytical. Every Tuesday I drive north to Syracuse (80 miles) and back south to Binghamton, NY, almost entirely on Interstate 81. This week I had to bring my child to a doctor's appointment north of Syracuse, then drop him back at school, do an errand, pick him up again, etc., which is a bit more than the usual up-and-back that I'm used to. When I realized I was not going to make it back home, I charged up 25% more at the quite-inconvenient supercharger north of Syracuse. I left with about 97% charge and returned home with 21%, which would have been -4% had I not charged for 25% mid-journey. Google Maps multi-destination tool shows me this was 204 miles (here is route). Most of driving was 70 mph. Temp outside was around 37°F or so, which for Upstate NY is not cold. And I blew more than 100% charge on 204 miles in my Model Y 2021 which is exactly 1 year old (and I've been complaining about crappy range for 12 months).

204 highway miles, mid-30's°F temp, on appx. 101% MY charge?
-- JS

I drove this route a lot back in the early '90's when I was living in Endicott and had people working for me in Syracuse. If I recall, going north, there is a decent elevation change once you get north of Tully. That will impact your range as well. And yes, you have to go back down the same area, but I've found that going downhill doesn't add as much energy back into the battery as going up the same hill uses. For comparison, I live in Central NJ, my parents live in Saratoga Springs NY, which is a drive of about 225 miles. I have to stop half way (Kingston NY SC) so I don't arrive with less than 5% SOC. Lots of elevation change here too, going through the Catskills. Unfortunately, your situation is exacerbated by the lack of SC's between Binghamton and Syracuse.

Looking at the Plugshare app, there are a few charging locations on 81 but they are either Tesla destination chargers or J1772. The best option would be to find someplace in Syracuse near your destination (I assume you're going to be in Syracuse for some period of time) and plug in while you do what you need to do. According to Plugshare, there are several parking lots/garages that have J1772 charging available. Also, once Tesla makes their CCS adapter available, you can use other charging networks for fast charging. Electrify America appears to have several in the Syracuse area.