I think that isn't so clear. The 9.6 kw Pro package is standard on the Lariat trim, which is actually still standard range. Extended range is still a big upcharge. It isn't clear to me which package includes "vehicle 2 load", which seems to be more than 9.6kw based on the longevity estimates. It also appears to require the installation of a "Ford Charge Station Pro", and I do not think they have revealed pricing for that yet. Expect $1k+.
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If new Ford Lightning can back feed a house in power outage, why can't Teslas?
- Thread starter Flybuddy
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It's my understanding that any Extended Range truck comes with the 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro for free but you will be able to purchase if for the 230mile version. That's what their head of EV said and it's on their marketing material. That to me is a huge plus that I haven't seen anyone really talk about. This thing should have a pretty easy installation between the mains and your panel. This is basically a free smart ATS.
This article also talks about it. Ford’s F-150 Lightning is a Tesla Powerwall on wheels
Isn't a "home transfer switch" (similar to Tesla's gateway) required in addition to the Ford Charge Station Pro? I don't believe the Ford Charge Station Pro is the home transfer switch.
You know maybe I'm wrong, I'm seeing conflicting articles. I thought the charge station handled it and that their EV guy said it but they may have been intentionally skipping a step. This Ford article seems to say it's chargestation pro - https://media.ford.com/content/ford.../05/19/all-electric-ford-f-150-lightning.html. I thought their head of EV said it was just the chargestation pro too in this podcast . In any case will be interesting.
EDIT: At 10:00 they talk about, it seems like the chargestation may do it but you need a DC-AC inverter at the end. Which they claim is low cost.
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Yes, I think that is required, but that goes along with the electrical work to install the charge station pro. A transfer switch isn't necessarily expensive.
Yeah, that certainly says that the charge station pro comes with the extended range. It will be interesting to see if they stick with that for all variations of the Extended Range, including the commercial oriented ones. Its a pretty big thing to include, and a lot of people may have a hard time even having space for an additional 80 amp breaker.
In the podcast you linked he mentions the "charging box" is bi-directional but that doesn't mean it's the only hardware required. He mentions that during an outage, the current from the truck will be "picked up by an inverter on your wall". He mentions that "you need another box on the wall but this is not a hugely expensive thing...and we've given you everything else that you need. So you only simply need that last box and it installed and then you're ready to go". That's the transfer switch/inverter that he's talking about. While a cheap automatic transfer switch might only run $500, a combined transfer switch/inverter will probably cost $2000 or more, plus installation. Without it, there's no way the vehicle would be allowed to just power the house since the transfer switch is necessary to isolate the house from the grid. With Powerwall installs, the gateway or gateway 2 isolates the house from the grid. Installation requires homeowners to decide if they want partial or whole-home backup and potentially other changes such as upgrading the electric panel. For some households wanting this feature from the F150 Lightning, it might only be ~$2000 plus install but for other households it could easily cost $5000 or more, depending on what other changes are required to the electric panel.
His statement that you'll be able to power your house for "at least 3 days, maybe 10" is a very bad over-simplification since he didn't mention the "at 30 kWh per day" disclaimer listed on the website. Also it should be able to last longer than 10 days, assuming the household load is low. The amount of time you can actually power your house depends on how many kWh are in your battery and how much energy your house uses, not what their head of EVs claims using marketing-speak on a podcast.
Number one it is not an 80 amp breaker. It requires a 100 amp breaker to charge at 80 amps, max continuous draw from a breaker is 80% by code.
The backup power is a good thing, but the 80 amp charger will require a service upgrade for a large portion of customers. There seems to be some confusion as to whether an inverter is required in addition to a transfer switch. If so it would have to support about 40 to 50 amps for 9600 watts. Google says it could be $2900 for a 10,000 watt inverter.
I just don't see the value of battery to grid arrangements for a vehicle battery. Backing up home power is fine, but why give up potential range for a grid connection.
The backup power is a good thing, but the 80 amp charger will require a service upgrade for a large portion of customers. There seems to be some confusion as to whether an inverter is required in addition to a transfer switch. If so it would have to support about 40 to 50 amps for 9600 watts. Google says it could be $2900 for a 10,000 watt inverter.
I just don't see the value of battery to grid arrangements for a vehicle battery. Backing up home power is fine, but why give up potential range for a grid connection.
Ha, I assumed it was 30kwh per day as their baseline. I'm glad to see someone verified that's what they meant.
Nobody with a $50k+ truck is staying that low in the summer in the southeast.
Just to add, my mention of inverter prices is to emphasize that I'm sure the vehicle to home output uses onboard inverter(s). There is no way any extra expensive requirement would be there without mention.
Additionally, no matter how the car is connected, limited circuit or whole house transfer switch, there will be a 50 amp CB protecting the output from the truck just as there is for my 10kw (9kw NG) Generac. A whole house automatic connection requires that the source be able to power EVERY connected device. In my mostly gas powered home, the 9kw generator required load shedding for major appliances, electric oven and dryer, and my 50amp garage sub panel..
Additionally, no matter how the car is connected, limited circuit or whole house transfer switch, there will be a 50 amp CB protecting the output from the truck just as there is for my 10kw (9kw NG) Generac. A whole house automatic connection requires that the source be able to power EVERY connected device. In my mostly gas powered home, the 9kw generator required load shedding for major appliances, electric oven and dryer, and my 50amp garage sub panel..
Or included in the price.
Still interested how Ford is technically doing this given the specs for CCS1 don't include any V2x features.
Would think highly likely the car inverter would be bi-way to do it sensibly.
That said I don't think that's the case with the Chademo Nissan Leaf solution where the required wall box cost is about $10k.
There are issues that must be considered with a 9,600 watt backup power source. I went through them installing a 9,000 watt whole house standby generator. My house has natural gas heating, hot water and cook top. I use 120 volt small window A/Cs. In order to get electrical permit approval, my electric oven, dryer, largest window A/C and a 50 amp garage subpanel all had to be on load shedding. Generac standby generators have the load shedding feature included. In most houses 9,600 kw is marginal for large loads like central air or cooking and A/Cs at the same time. Those electric loads could be manually managed with care using an interlock connection, but I'm not sure how you could make that work because the charger circuit has to be powered at the same time as the incoming service. A limited circuit transfer switch is likely the only option.
In my opinion, using transportation energy for backup power is a bad idea for significant outages like those that are going to happen today in the Northeast.
I like the idea of powering tools on a work truck, but for backup power, a $5,500 investment in a modest standby generator if you have gas or propane available makes more sense than using a much smaller Tesla 74 kwh battery at the expense of mobility. The much more modest incorporation of a 120 volt outlet reverse current outlet in the charger connection, as in the upcoming Hyundai might be worthwhile to keep a refrigerator and a couple of lights on temporarily, but a 120 volt outlet in the car as in some ICE models unrelated to the charging circuit might make more sense.
An additional issue with the Lightning is that a 100 amp circuit for 80 watt charging is marginally available in most homes without upgrading service.
In my opinion, using transportation energy for backup power is a bad idea for significant outages like those that are going to happen today in the Northeast.
I like the idea of powering tools on a work truck, but for backup power, a $5,500 investment in a modest standby generator if you have gas or propane available makes more sense than using a much smaller Tesla 74 kwh battery at the expense of mobility. The much more modest incorporation of a 120 volt outlet reverse current outlet in the charger connection, as in the upcoming Hyundai might be worthwhile to keep a refrigerator and a couple of lights on temporarily, but a 120 volt outlet in the car as in some ICE models unrelated to the charging circuit might make more sense.
An additional issue with the Lightning is that a 100 amp circuit for 80 watt charging is marginally available in most homes without upgrading service.
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