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If not this Tesla what?

Kurokawa

Member
Nov 3, 2021
6
9
UK
You've chosen to buy a Tesla, before you made that choice you looked at alternatives, which of those alternatives lost out as your first choice and why?
Was going to order Model 3 but read the rumour of heated steering on RWD and new paint job, and I am holding on until those rumours being confirm

Before deciding to have model 3, I have considered Kia EV6 and BMW i4.

EV6 pros:
Hatchback have more practical boot space,
Kia absolute good reputation in reliability and quality
Better rear seat height and love the full recline front seat
Longer range

Why I didn’t pick EV6. I have to go to relatively high trim (GT/GT-S) to get all the options I want and I can get everything I want in Model 3 RWD and cost less. EV6 extra range isn’t necessary for my usual journey but I want the extra performance and hence I have to pick the AWD version.

BMW i4 pros, even the basic version is very high performance, ex i3 owner

Why I don’t pick i4, prices, it is BMW, as a ex i3 owner and long term BMW fan I know so well the “everything is optional”
 
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C225

Member
Jul 7, 2021
170
135
Scotland
I looked at and test drove a Polestar 2 and a Volvo XC40 Pure recharge,

I discounted the polestar nearly straight away despite it being the one i initially most wanted, it just felt heavy to drive and the interior whilst nice just felt to hemmed in for my liking and nothing special. That and the sales guy at the test drive was awful in complete contrast to the SA at Tesla.

As for the Volvo i probably preferred it driving to any of them felt really good but the interior was just like any other xc40 and the one i drove was fully specced costing well over £60k and the basic one that i could afford wouln't have most of the gadgets i would probably want. Also the sales guys really weren't interested in selling it as they claimed the electric ones were all done by Volvo head office so they didn't have any say in prices or stock. was all very weird.

The Tesla was still great to drive, comes with all the gadgets as standard, sales guy was excellent, delivery was only 6 weeks and there is the superchargers for the occasional long trip if I need to make so it all made sense to go for it.
 
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UkNorthampton

TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Jun 15, 2019
902
7,873
Northampton, England
There was only one (just) affordable long range EV when I bought my Tesla. Other EV for short trips - just wanted cheap second-hand.

Anyone I advise now, I say don't get a car with nickel-based pouch cells. At best plenty of future recalls, low resale. At worst, restricted parking (work), excluded from business or house insurance. I think high-energy large pouch cells are daft. Really daft. Everyone will switch to LFP or metal cylinders in my opinion, but it might take years. Leasing, maybe no worry - but buying/using long term, I think this is important.

Cars under too much stress (temperature, vibration) to use pouch. And once a pouch goes, it will set the others off. With cylinders, less chance and slower. LFP very safe.
 
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I test drive the Polestar 2 first thinking that is the one that I wanted. Unfortunately I was only able to drive it around Kensington so didn’t get much above 20mph. Comfortable but as mentioned above I felt hemmed in and claustrophobic.
I went to look at the Merc eqa. The salesman unlocked the car from the other side of the showroom and walked away. So did I.
 
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Drew57

Active ember
Apr 4, 2020
1,229
1,489
Chester UK
Anyone I advise now, I say don't get a car with nickel-based pouch cells. At best plenty of future recalls, low resale. At worst, restricted parking (work), excluded from business or house insurance. I think high-energy large pouch cells are daft. Really daft. Everyone will switch to LFP or metal cylinders in my opinion, but it might take years. Leasing, maybe no worry - but buying/using long term, I think this is important.

Cars under too much stress (temperature, vibration) to use pouch. And once a pouch goes, it will set the others off. With cylinders, less chance and slower. LFP very safe.
:oops:

Prior to this post I thought I was quite Tesla savvy.

I now realise I am clueless....
 

phil4

Member
Sep 8, 2020
375
220
UK
The only car I gave any thought to was the Polestar 2.

I don't need nor want an SUV.
Tesla's lack of options in comparison to BMW, Porsche and the like was good.
The Supercharger network while not used daily, was again good to have.
The lack of required servicing/fleecing was good too.
All in all (as above) the disruptive nature of Tesla made me happy. Even the little things like phone to unlock.
At the time the price vs performance was good

Even now, though the reality of ownership has been realised, I doubt very much I'd not get another M3 if I were to change today.
 

Washout

Member
Sep 24, 2021
118
83
UK
You've chosen to buy a Tesla, before you made that choice you looked at alternatives, which of those alternatives lost out as your first choice and why?
I've been a Jag (and Range Rover) customer since 2001 with a number of vehicles from them, including two new XK's (both old steel and newer shape ali).
Looked at and had the i-Pace on loan for a few days, but:
a. the iPace is £25K over priced for what it is
b. any ICE alternative is now 12 months away for delivery
c. their servicing costs have been creeping up steadily with some shocking markups on parts
d. JLR's dealerships have been going rapidly downhill over the last decade, especially with shoddy customer treatment and worse recently with poor servicing mechanics (horror story regarding brakes on my XK, which I rectified myself, but shouldn't have had to)
e. the dealers do not treat/pay their staff very well (I know some ex-JLR mechanics personally), hence point c.
f. the tech in the cars used to be good, but these days is very poor and especially on the software side (they can't even get a recursive music directory search to work properly in the F-Pace, which was the last JLR car I bought)

So I walked and much as I'd like to think I'd be back if JLR produced an electric F-Type, unless they sort out their tech and their dealers (or better just shut them all down and go the Tesla model) I won't be returning.

Somewhere there is a 3 hour roundtable with Sandy Munro from 2018 on YouTube, stating that ICE and/or legacy manufacturers were going to be in big trouble, unless they started to compete with the tech and dealership network approach that Tesla have taken....the words were prophetic in hindsight...
 
I would go for the BMW iX at some point. Downsizing now from an X5 to Model-3 and hoping to go back to a 'wrinkles ironed-out' iX in a few years. IMHO I think BMW make better cars (build quality), but Tesla is better on software and self driving. But hopefully the gap will narrow. I think the VW ID3 is a great electric car, have one of those on order as missus prefers a smaller compact car.

I would love for tesla to update the model X or bring in something NEW that is a better fit for the SUV segment and I surely will be persuaded to go all Tesla. Only time will tell.
 

Dilly

Active Member
Feb 24, 2020
2,512
2,000
Norfolk
I had an Ioniq Electric before the M3. The build quality and the simplicity of all the functions made it a car worth having
Lane keep was rubbish and I barely used it. The aircon seats were a dream and I miss not having a speed limiter.
But… a range of 137 miles just wasn’t up to the job.
If there’s a next time, maybe an Ioniq 6. The 5 like the original, is just butt ugly.
If only Tesla can up it’s game to produce a car designed for the U.K.
 

Llama.

Lurking somewhere up North.
Jan 25, 2021
277
158
Who knows?
I bought my Model 3 LR in March. There was very little to compare to then for an EV that can easily travel over 300 miles between charges as my family’s only car.

Things have moved on loads since then and there are plenty of options including VW ID4, Polestar 2, Kia, Hyundai etc

The non- Tesla charging network is really improving and soon Tesla Superchargers will be opened up to non-Tesla cars.

I think the position is changing quickly and there are more and more options all the time.
 

UkNorthampton

TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Jun 15, 2019
902
7,873
Northampton, England
All you need to know is that OP is not keen on nickel in pouch cells but likes LFP. :rolleyes:
Any EV is safer than an ICE (especially BMW/Vauxhall). Even if the EV does catch fire (stats from memory were ICE much more dangerous), EVs start slow while ICE fires can be very fast & there's so much energy in the fuel that it's much more dangerous. I think I've seen around 10 vehicle fires not from collisions, a few involved me or others trying to tell the driver their car was on fire, they didn't seem to notice for the first few seconds but pulled over when thick smoke or flames made it obvious.

All pouch used in cars are probably high energy (various combinations of nickel, cobalt, manganese, aluminium etc).

I think LFP is fine in any format, Tesla/CATL are (I think) prismatic. High energy cells are best in the format Tesla (and Lucid) uses. Small, metal with a deliberate weak spot to evacuate gas safely without exploding & causing nearby cells problems. 1000 degrees centigrade gas vented slowly/specific direction must be better than a sudden explosion.

Pouch cells seem to have rare manufacturing or stress related problems, the end result of which seems to be possibility of random problems. A big, high energy, hot bag of gas without structural support will be less safe than small, well engineered metal cans. Tesla chose right. Some laughed at Tesla for using "old-fashioned" cylindrical laptop cells while the cool cats were encouraged by battery manufacturers to use pouch (more modern, higher profits).

Hyundai/Kia have had pouch fires, so have VW ID models (Netherlands, I believe) but as far as I know, only the one VERY suspect S Plaid fire (owned by a short-seller) in recent years. Tesla have improved their designs over the years, adding fire-retardant & better cooling/engineering.

Some USA insurance companies have over-reacted to Bolt pouch fires (but didn't for the numerous BMW ICE fire problems). They've curtailed insurance for houses & businesses, hence the "No Bolt parking" signs.

Again, still safer than ICE, especially BMW/Vauxhall (of old). It's new tech and moral panics / fear will exist until EVs are mainstream.
 

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