If Taycan so can we!

[scottm]

Porsche Taycan Did 2,128 Miles In 24-Hour Nardo Endurance Run

Porsche has done something very 24 hr of Le Mans like... Posed the question: How far can you go in 24 hrs when everything else is pretty much unrestricted (closed circuit). The car is allowed to go as fast as it can. Drivers are freshened at charge stops...

This is a fantastic metric for e-cars manufacturers! The game becomes one of balance - what's the best speed to travel, using what fraction of the battery, that will allow optimal charging stops...?? All put together.

Everybody knows there's a taper penalty of time by trying to eek out the top end 10% of an uncapped battery on a Tesla.

But does the Taycan taper? Maybe the battery is over-provisioned (extra cells for top end buffer) so fast charging zooms to 100%, unplug and go again. Anybody know the Taycan behavior at low end SOC... when does speed start to suffer, or does it? Can it run hard to 1% safely knowing there's a charger waiting on the next lap..

So, for Tesla, it brings theory and I'm sure people have already figured this out. When the SC charging rate tapers down and "miles per hour gained at the pump" drops... what's the best point to unplug and go when you're playing the Le Mans game? I think there's a differential equation of two energy curves over time involved in figuring that out. And it may be different from car to car, but there's got to be a general rule. Anyone?

point of personal trivia.. this was my 3000th post to this forum, and seems fitting it started a thread

 

[Uncle Paul]

Porsche could pretty much accomplish this feat by installing larger and more efficient radiatiors. Would allow both for faster charging and faster discharging. Not that big a deal. More of a party trick.
No reports of how much degredation their batterys suffer with this abuse.

99.99 percent of all Tesla owners will never put their cars through this proceedure.

 

[scottm]

Porsche could pretty much accomplish this feat by installing larger and more efficient radiatiors. Would allow both for faster charging and faster discharging. Not that big a deal. More of a party trick.
No reports of how much degredation their batterys suffer with this abuse.

99.99 percent of all Tesla owners will never put their cars through this proceedure.

Because they can, it's a great metric... not just a trick. They know what's important to autobahn drivers. These will be zooming by Teslas in Germany. On the road and at the pump.

The reports of Tesla battery sudden degradation are just coming in now... maybe Porsche will be better? Let's wait 5 years for that.

Are you afraid the Taycan can kick your tin can Tesla !?

Gloves off! Let's race. I would love to rent a Taycan to kick it around for just 24 hours.

 

[Dithermaster]

99.99 percent of all Tesla owners will never put their cars through this proceedure.

I'd add another 9 to that given how many cars have shipped, and maybe even and 8 after that.

 

[scottm]

People are already making news doing similar things with their model 3's in coast-to-coast runs.

It's not so much about real people doing this... it's a manufacture's goal for improving vehicles. The fact that Porsche IS doing this is a sign of maturity in understanding the goal. The way they get better tech is to make race cars that stress the limits.

It seems Tesla is producing average consumer EV tech (with a bit of science fiction mixed in to keep the masses dazzled) but Porsche is positioning themselves to make racing tech EV's. They want to differentiate their cars from the rest of the EV market, and they're doing it.

Anyway, the reason why I started the thread was to get perspectives on this question I asked in post 1...

When the SC charging rate tapers down and "miles per hour gained at the pump" starts to drop what's the best point to unplug and go when you're playing the Le Mans game?

Given we know about the SC taper, it's better to play on the lower end of the battery where it charges faster. I was hoping some mathematicians would chime in. There's got to be a formula here... ?

 

[meomyo]

Porsche Taycan Did 2,128 Miles In 24-Hour Nardo Endurance Run

Porsche has done something very 24 hr of Le Mans like... Posed the question: How far can you go in 24 hrs when everything else is pretty much unrestricted (closed circuit). The car is allowed to go as fast as it can. Drivers are freshened at charge stops...

This is a fantastic metric for e-cars manufacturers! The game becomes one of balance - what's the best speed to travel, using what fraction of the battery, that will allow optimal charging stops...?? All put together.

Everybody knows there's a taper penalty of time by trying to eek out the top end 10% of an uncapped battery on a Tesla.

But does the Taycan taper? Maybe the battery is over-provisioned (extra cells for top end buffer) so fast charging zooms to 100%, unplug and go again. Anybody know the Taycan behavior at low end SOC... when does speed start to suffer, or does it? Can it run hard to 1% safely knowing there's a charger waiting on the next lap..

So, for Tesla, it brings theory and I'm sure people have already figured this out. When the SC charging rate tapers down and "miles per hour gained at the pump" drops... what's the best point to unplug and go when you're playing the Le Mans game? I think there's a differential equation of two energy curves over time involved in figuring that out. And it may be different from car to car, but there's got to be a general rule. Anyone?

point of personal trivia.. this was my 3000th post to this forum, and seems fitting it started a thread

is it best to unplug when the sc rate slows from say 90 or 125 to 50-60? unplug and go or sit there to keep charging?

 

[scottm]

is it best to unplug when the sc rate slows from say 90 or 125 to 50-60? unplug and go or sit there to keep charging?

Right, this is exactly my question. Maybe the trip planner function in the nav already does some similar computation by telling you how much to charge at the station to reach next charge stop. Although it's probably just a "meets minimum requirements" target.

It's not doing a "maximize distance" math. It's doing a "minimize time". Because it treats supercharging as a scarce commodity along the way. For a le Mans type thing, SC would not be scarce, it would be readily available (every lap).

Tesla has a track with a SC. They just need to repeat what Porsche did.

 

[Snerruc]

Check Bjourn’s site. He ran a Model 3 on regular Autobahns in Germany. I don’t remember exactly, but I think he got in this range. A much more meaningful test.

 

[Saghost]

is it best to unplug when the sc rate slows from say 90 or 125 to 50-60? unplug and go or sit there to keep charging?

Is generally best to go as soon as you have an adequate margin into the next node.

Unless they are close enough that you can skip a node before hitting any significant charging taper, that'll always be the case.

If you can skip, it becomes the ratio of the time lost to the slower charging vs the time spent pulling off the main road and parking and plugging in.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Handling and performance-wise, the Taycan will spank any Tesla on the track. As everyone knows, running a track isn't about 0-60, it's about sustained performance. Tesla's are optimized in 0-60 because that's what sells to consumers. Porsche is not targeting average consumers, they are targeting those who demand the highest, sustained performance. Teslas are a joke on the Autobahn, for instance.

Tesla powertrains are really nothing special. All of Tesla's so-called "brilliance", such as it is, is in the software. Everything else is average. There is no doubt Tesla will lose top end sales to Taycan.

 

[scottm]

Unless the Roadster spanks em all... but that doesn't have 4 doors, another critical metric Taycan lives up to.

 

[meomyo]

Handling and performance-wise, the Taycan will spank any Tesla on the track. As everyone knows, running a track isn't about 0-60, it's about sustained performance. Tesla's are optimized in 0-60 because that's what sells to consumers. Porsche is not targeting average consumers, they are targeting those who demand the highest, sustained performance. Teslas are a joke on the Autobahn, for instance.

Tesla powertrains are really nothing special. All of Tesla's so-called "brilliance", such as it is, is in the software. Everything else is average. There is no doubt Tesla will lose top end sales to Taycan.

either was in usa speed whether 0-60 or sustained track race speed is useless really unless you want a ticket and to loose your license. I mean the 0-60 lowest end s or 3 or x is way better then 95% of any cars on the road so getting into traffic from an onramp or getting away from traffic is plenty possible. Racing on freeways? why? Like i said you are asking for trouble. Porsche is all about status/image as is jaguar : less so with tesla now that the model 3 is out though cause there are so many more then s on the road that i see.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

either was in usa speed whether 0-60 or sustained track race speed is useless really unless you want a ticket and to loose your license. I mean the 0-60 lowest end s or 3 or x is way better then 95% of any cars on the road so getting into traffic from an onramp or getting away from traffic is plenty possible. Racing on freeways? why? Like i said you are asking for trouble. Porsche is all about status/image as is jaguar : less so with tesla now that the model 3 is out though cause there are so many more then s on the road that i see.

Porsche is a German mark and sells to the German market first and foremost. 70% of Germany's 8,000 miles of Autobahn have no speed limit. This car is built for that level of engagement and where a Tesla is a poor fit. Porsche isn't looking to be a #1 volume seller of EVs. They are a niche automaker for customers who demand the highest level of performance and handling.

The question I have is how such sustained high speed performance impacts range. The European WLTP test cycle is notoriously optimistic, more so than our EPA estimate.

 

[meomyo]

Porsche is a German mark and sells to the German market first and foremost. 70% of Germany's 8,000 miles of Autobahn have no speed limit. This car is built for that level of engagement and where a Tesla is a poor fit. Porsche isn't looking to be a #1 volume seller of EVs. They are a niche automaker for customers who demand the highest level of performance and handling.

The question I have is how such sustained high speed performance impacts range. The European WLTP test cycle is notoriously optimistic, more so than our EPA estimate.

yes i see. I have to laugh at the 2 guys i see here in littleton driving lambroghinis.I either see them on the freeway going 65-75 or on the streets going 25-40/45 max. I always wonder if its not good for supercars to run so slow?

 

[ICUDoc]

Porsche is all about status/image as is jaguar

I think that is a bit harsh- Porsche make excellent cars that do what they are advertised to do- drive brilliantly.
This takes NOTHING AWAY FROM Tesla, which makes great cars that are different from Porsches...

 

[Russell]

Right, this is exactly my question. Maybe the trip planner function in the nav already does some similar computation by telling you how much to charge at the station to reach next charge stop. Although it's probably just a "meets minimum requirements" target.

It's not doing a "maximize distance" math. It's doing a "minimize time". Because it treats supercharging as a scarce commodity along the way. For a le Mans type thing, SC would not be scarce, it would be readily available (every lap).

Tesla has a track with a SC. They just need to repeat what Porsche did.

I would guess the best time to unplug is when the charge rate is at the car's average speed. Example, if the car's average speed is 90mph, you wouldn't want to continue charging if the charge rate is below that. You will not be using your time efficiently.

 

[Saghost]

I would guess the best time to unplug is when the charge rate is at the car's average speed. Example, if the car's average speed is 90mph, you wouldn't want to continue charging if the charge rate is below that. You will not be using your time efficiently.

A good approach, but there's a caveat: Tesla displays the charging speed in rated miles per hour, and a car driving at 90 mph will use substantially more than a rated mile for every mile driven.

You need to compensate for that to find the actual best time to leave.

 

[wwu123]

yes i see. I have to laugh at the 2 guys i see here in littleton driving lambroghinis.I either see them on the freeway going 65-75 or on the streets going 25-40/45 max. I always wonder if its not good for supercars to run so slow?

Speaking of, the local Club Corsa was having their Lamborghini meet up next to my daughter's dance studio this weekend. Have to admit it was pretty cool to see, with Ferrari's, McLaren's, and others just "parked" in the lot further back and Tokyo Drift style techno music blasting....

Meanwhile, exiting the dance studio parking were mainly Tesla's and SUV's filled with little girls, often having to drive straight through the Lamborghini area...

 

[meomyo]

i guess when i see the 2 here i see sometimes they look out of place- i am sure in cali(L.A.)they would look more in style. Even if i had the $$ i wouldnt want one. I am paranoid enough where to park the model s so it wont get dinged or hit.

 

[meomyo]

I think that is a bit harsh- Porsche make excellent cars that do what they are advertised to do- drive brilliantly.
This takes NOTHING AWAY FROM Tesla, which makes great cars that are different from Porsches...

As WAS tesla untill the model 3 arrived.lol- now i see teslas everywhere in denver area like bmw's.
I have seen a few of the clown car bmw-i think its called i8? Slow and looks like a hot wheels car.