If the M3 is your only vehicle, what about 3 month+ repair delays...

[chickensevil]

As someone who made a Model S his only car (single so not even a GF car to steal now and then) going Electric it was a bug concern first and foremost that I could drive it wherever and whenever I wanted/needed. I never really thought about it being out of commission due to unforseen circumstances.

That said... I am now on my second Model S (traded up for the dual motors and AP... What can I say? It's awesome!) And I seem to be the one with all the bad luck.

Note I am outlining this so you can have a frame of reference on wait times... Not to scare you over issues with the car. I know plenty of people with no issues and most who have had issues havent been as numerous.

First issue: rough delivery, gash in glass and scratch/gash in paint. Had to take it back to them around 1 month later (soonest they could schedule for the body shop) and the car was out for a week. This was my longest time ever without the car in all my time. And for good reason, they had to repaint the rear hatch... That stuff takes time.

Window creak and some other minor complaints like the door being too hard to close... 24 hour turn around.

Motor replacement... Twice. First time was a two day turnaround. Second time was a bit longer but that was also my fault as I took their rental (didn't have a loaner available) out of town and so they were in no rush to complete the car because I wouldn't be back until Monday. I gave them the car on Thursday and they didn't start until like Saturday.

Front hood sensor - twice... Ugh... So up until now, all my issues were non-critical. Annoying, sure. Important to fix... Definitely. Keeping me from driving the car? Nope. So I knew with Rockville, MD being the only location servicing WV, most of VA, MD and even parts of DE and PA... They were a bit busy. Annual maintenance was a three month wait... Kind of busy. So all issues took around a month or so to schedule and execute, but they were also non-critical. Immediately after Tyson's Corner, VA opened they were still pretty swamped helping to play catch up.

So, trunk latch sensor,while not keeping me from driving, it was VERY. ANNOYING. The car would beep three times while driving. Every. Three. Seconds. Now, the lady was nice she was trying to be accommodating but at first she was like, uhhh the soonest is a Saturday (this was Monday, and not the issue started on Sunday, but they were closed...) I was going to lose my mind from all the beeping. And she could hear it over the phone... So I agreed to the time, and she ended up calling me back asking how Wed would do. I was really happy to see them push something like that.

I also did some other visits for the AC blanket and some other little things I don't recall now.

Second Tesla. I had high hopes. Right off the line (because that's my luck with any new car) I get one of like maybe 1,000 cars that were painted one of like, two colors (it was blue and one other) in which they put just the tiniest amount of too much paint over the ultrasonic sensors... So of course I was getting tons of false "you are going to run into something!!!!" Reads on them (thankfully those only show up when going under 5 MPH! After that the car is apparently smart enough to ignore such readings... +1 for good programming!) Anyway, all of them had to be replaced. I dropped the car off in the morning, and picked it up in the afternoon. Best turn around yet!

Final issue... My left mirror was not folding out all the way. The lock was damaged or some such... I don't know. They said bring it by and we will take a look... Whenever was convenient for me (there's a first... No scheduled appointments? Shock!) I took it by, sure enough the guy knew what part failed, they checked to see if they had a replacement, they did so I waited around an hour right then to just have them fix it.

So again, I am not posting all of this to scare anyone away (and while I don't hide that I have had my issues with the car, I give no permissions to have this post be reprinted or duplicated or quoted outside of this forum without my express consent!). Merely to point out a bunch of ways that you could be without a car... And Tesla was quite accommodating and quick. And they definitely are getting better in just the two years I have owned their products!

Would it be disappointing to be without a car for three months? Sure. But even with my luck for getting lemon prone cars apparently... Tesla Service, for their part, have been really responsive and quick at making this painless as possible. The only service that took longer than a 24 hour(or less) turn around was the body work (which isn't done by them) and motor replacement. Neither of which had me without my car for longer than a week.

 

[zambono]

If you purchased, aren't you concerned about all these small issues after warranty has expired?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Factor in the extended warranty into the price if you can't handle the risk of repair costs.

I feel there's less concern with the Model 3, not because of experience or anything, but because of scale. Scale allows for more Superchargers, more service centers, more body shops, more everything. Scale is what allows more testing and improvement. Model 3 is intended to be over 10 times as numerous as the S, at 500k per year, which means that $500k per year is $1 per car.

 

[chickensevil]

If you purchased, aren't you concerned about all these small issues after warranty has expired?

Nah, it's no worse or better than my luck with any other car. The second one has been considerably better in overall build quality and other than the motor noise, which arguably was just a noise and nothing to be worried about (I drove with a noise each time for a good 5-10k miles before fixing it and it didn't really get better or worse) the only reason I cared to fix it was because *someone else* pointed it out... But it was really my only major repeat issue... Generally when you fix something once it stays fixed for a long time.

The only issue that I had that I couldn't just perpetually put off looking into was the hood sensor which other than labor I wouldn't imagine cost all that much.

The Model 3 will be produced at much higher volumes so the margin for errors will be much lower.

 

[dhrivnak]

I have had the much rarer Roadster for 5+ years now and have never been out of service for more than a week. So you are talking about an extreme case

 

[ummgood]

My Leaf is my only mode of transit.

I'm pretty sure many people (most people) can do perfectly fine with Teslas as sole transportation.

I am sure some can do with an electric car for their primary mode of transport. I am sure it is much more convienent when living in a metro area which is a large part of the population. There is something to be said for ICE cars. For example my daughter was at camp last summer and got violently ill and I had to pick her up. It was a 3 hour each way drive and I could hop into the ICE and fill it up in 3 minutes and make the entire trip without much thought. If a Tesla was my only mode of transport it would have been much more effort. I agree that people can live with electric but there are times when ICE is needed. I can't wait to see charging stations everywhere and it take less time to top up but in my example that wouldn't have been possible where I was going.

I do come from a mindset of a father with 3 kids. I do like alternative transport and commuted solely on a 500CC motor scooter for 2 years and we had one other car my wife used. It got to the point where one of my kids went to the ER and I was stuck at home with the other two kids. When my daughter got admitted into the hospital I was stuck because I had no way to get my other kids to the hospital as my wife was at the hospital. That is when I ended up buying a second car.

While I agree here that it would be awesome to have a Tesla as primary transport there are some situations where a family needs to have a car that can go when they need it to without planning on supercharger stops. This is probably few and far between but it is something to think about. I also wonder if certain areas lend themselves to electric transport. I know in Texas if you stay in the city it would be fine but stuff is so spread out here. My inlaws live in a lake house and round trip would be tough in the Tesla with 200 miles of range. I could charge there but that means I would have to stay there quite awhile to get enough charge to get home. The nearest supercharger to them I think is in San Antonio but that would be quite a bit out of the way. I will have to plan that out.

This is just my opinion of course Maybe I'll come around after living with an electric car for a couple years. I am just not quite convinced yet but I am willing to give it a try for my car. I'll keep the minivan though just in case

I don't know where you get your misinformation, but the closest service center to Austin is actually in Austin on Burnet Rd. and has been there for 3 years. A new larger one is being built at 183 & Pond Springs Rd.

Thanks I wasn't aware of that. I was corrected above

 

[SureValla]

I am sure some can do with an electric car for their primary mode of transport. I am sure it is much more convienent when living in a metro area which is a large part of the population. There is something to be said for ICE cars. For example my daughter was at camp last summer and got violently ill and I had to pick her up. It was a 3 hour each way drive and I could hop into the ICE and fill it up in 3 minutes and make the entire trip without much thought. If a Tesla was my only mode of transport it would have been much more effort. I agree that people can live with electric but there are times when ICE is needed. I can't wait to see charging stations everywhere and it take less time to top up but in my example that wouldn't have been possible where I was going.

In this case you could always rent an ICE car for the day. I have a similar argument all the time with people when they say they need an SUV or they need a pickup truck for the one time they move from apartment to apartment or take their kids to college. Just rent something for the day and save tons of money on a small fuel efficient car for the other 95% of your driving.

 

[ummgood]

In this case you could always rent an ICE car for the day. I have a similar argument all the time with people when they say they need an SUV or they need a pickup truck for the one time they move from apartment to apartment or take their kids to college. Just rent something for the day and save tons of money on a small fuel efficient car for the other 95% of your driving.

I agree with you on renting trucks when needed etc... I have told people that many times. I have a fairly large lot and my truck is really small but I have friends that live in small houses with large trucks. Whenever I need to do things where I need more hauling capacity I rent a u-haul trailer for $20. The only reason I still have a truck is because I used to own a boat and would haul it everywhere. The truck still runs so I still have it and it is paid off.

The example I gave above wouldn't have been possible to rent an ice in that short of notice. I agree with you though that for most occasions renting is a good alternative. My ideal hope would be that electric cars would be as convenient for long travel as an ICE. That means getting mostly charged in a minimum amount of time and you don't have to worry that a fast charger is available where you are going it is just assumed (like gas stations). I am impressed by the speed of super chargers. I would like to see them a bit faster though

 

[zax123]

I felt like I should chime in here just to assert that a Tesla can definitely serve as a primary car.

I've had my "early-VIN" P85 for just over three years now. Even though it was an early VIN and needed a couple tweaks here and there, I always got a loaner car whilst mine was in service and it has never been inconvenient to own a Tesla. Quite the opposite, but that's not what we're talking about.

I am confident enough in Tesla quality and reliability that my GF's ICE was traded in for a Kia Soul EV which is a low-range EV. So, I suppose you can say I have a "backup" car, but I most definitely do not depend on it as such.

My S is my primary car and I'm hoping that a Tesla will be my primary car for the foreseeable future.

I see no reason why a 3 could not be a primary car, and I am quite confident that Tesla will expand their service center network to be able to handle the added volume the 3 will bring.

 

[Zythryn]

... My ideal hope would be that electric cars would be as convenient for long travel as an ICE. That means getting mostly charged in a minimum amount of time and you don't have to worry that a fast charger is available where you are going it is just assumed (like gas stations). I am impressed by the speed of super chargers. I would like to see them a bit faster though

EVs are already more convenient than ICE cars for long travel
What you describe is not convenience, it is speed. And even when looking at speed, our trips have taken very little extra time than we would have had in an ICE.

Now, when I am talking convenience I am taking into account ease of the trip, comfort of the trip, less stress.

Your definition may not include those things and only account for speed.

My point is, both of us are correct. You can't say an EV is less convenient. You can say an EV is less convenient for me.

 

[mikevbf]

I believe the Model 3 is going to have a lot more steel than aluminum than the S and X. Steel should make body shop work much more common place and go a long way toward reducing accident repair times. That being said Tesla will have to improve how quickly they deliver parts to these body shops to truly reduce times. I am sure Tesla is aware of this and I hope they do prioritize service in time for the big Model 3 ramp up.

 

[ummgood]

EVs are already more convenient than ICE cars for long travel
What you describe is not convenience, it is speed. And even when looking at speed, our trips have taken very little extra time than we would have had in an ICE.

Now, when I am talking convenience I am taking into account ease of the trip, comfort of the trip, less stress.

Your definition may not include those things and only account for speed.

My point is, both of us are correct. You can't say an EV is less convenient. You can say an EV is less convenient for me.

I completely agree with you and I am being upfront that I don't own one yet so there is a lot of fear in my reasoning. I might be convinced otherwise when I take ownership of my Model 3. If you look at the supercharger map where I live (Austin, TX) most of the places I drive there is no supercharger available. I do know that I will be charging at home and 200 miles is plenty for most of my needs. In the example of going to pick up my daughter in Leakey, TX there really isn't a way to do it. (Maybe I am missing something). Since there wouldn't be a fast charger I would have to wait for 8 hours. That is the norm living in Texas. Sometimes you want to go visit small towns and they are just so far out from where I live. That is why I need the ICE. So in my opinion it isn't just about speed but also how do I charge in the places I end up going. I am sure Tesla will hopefully add more super chargers. I think it is a big gap that you can't drive I-10 in Texas yet between S.A. and El Paso. When I drive to Cali that is the way I go.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

People who are concerned about this should check their insurance policy to see how rental cars are covered. It's better to know upfront the potential costs if one's Model 3 is sideswiped or rear-ended and requires lengthy repair.

I am not too worried about this, but I have the luxury of being in a multi-car household.

 

[Zythryn]

I completely agree with you and I am being upfront that I don't own one yet so there is a lot of fear in my reasoning. I might be convinced otherwise when I take ownership of my Model 3. If you look at the supercharger map where I live (Austin, TX) most of the places I drive there is no supercharger available. I do know that I will be charging at home and 200 miles is plenty for most of my needs. In the example of going to pick up my daughter in Leakey, TX there really isn't a way to do it. (Maybe I am missing something). Since there wouldn't be a fast charger I would have to wait for 8 hours. That is the norm living in Texas. Sometimes you want to go visit small towns and they are just so far out from where I live. That is why I need the ICE. So in my opinion it isn't just about speed but also how do I charge in the places I end up going. I am sure Tesla will hopefully add more super chargers. I think it is a big gap that you can't drive I-10 in Texas yet between S.A. and El Paso. When I drive to Cali that is the way I go.

There is a popular saying that the best cure for range anxiety is the own an EV
The distance to Leakey from Austin is easily within range of a 200 mile EV. So in the case of an emergency, you could make it there.
However, the round trip would require an hour or two of charging along the way until Tesla builds more superchargers in the area.

Also, in an emergency, do you drive out there and then have to drive back ASAP? Or do you spend some time there? If you are spending time there, is there an RV outlet available, or could there be?

It is very true that the charging infrastructure is no completely in place for everyone.
However, for a lot of people who don't think it is, it is more than sufficient. (Not saying it is for you, just a general thing).

 

[ummgood]

Also, in an emergency, do you drive out there and then have to drive back ASAP? Or do you spend some time there? If you are spending time there, is there an RV outlet available, or could there be?

It is very true that the charging infrastructure is no completely in place for everyone.
However, for a lot of people who don't think it is, it is more than sufficient. (Not saying it is for you, just a general thing).

For that trip I basically left at 5p.m. drove 3 hours and arrived at 8, picked her up and was back by 11. In most cases if I am going for fun I do stop for awhile so hopefully I could find something. Leakey is another story the grocery store didn't even have built in restrooms and had an outhouse outside. So there are places I wouldn't expect to find an RV hookup or even electricity for that matter

 

[MrBoylan]

...When it comes to the S many have other vehicles, but I am thinking the 3 might be replacing the only vehicle more often. Have you guys taken this into consideration, and if not you should? Please no fan boy responses about Tesla getting a pass because of its size, these are real issues for the customers.

We're a one car household. Was planning on swapping our Highlander Hybrid for a Model X but things didn't work out. It would have been our only car and I was never worried about that. Last fall, my wife hit a curb at about 4 MPH. It not only blew out a tire but knocked out the power steering. 3.5 weeks later, we finally got our car back from the shop. And this is a 10-year-old Toyota. You can find parts for that by the side of the road. Most parts. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances.

Fortunately we are in NYC with excellent public transportation and we could walk or bike to the places that were harder to get to via subway or bus. When we get the Model 3, I do plan to keep the Highlander for a short time to see if we can manage with just seating for 5, and (presumably) less storage space. But the goal will be to be a one car household, even with the Model 3. And I'm not concerned about that at all.

 

[SageBrush]

Let's be outrageous and say that 10% of MS owners end up having to rent for a month at a cost of $1500.
That works out to an average cost of $150

The car costs say $75,000, so to be honest Tesla should advise an average cost of $75,150.

Anybody change their mind ?

 

[TexasEV]

I completely agree with you and I am being upfront that I don't own one yet so there is a lot of fear in my reasoning. I might be convinced otherwise when I take ownership of my Model 3. If you look at the supercharger map where I live (Austin, TX) most of the places I drive there is no supercharger available. I do know that I will be charging at home and 200 miles is plenty for most of my needs. In the example of going to pick up my daughter in Leakey, TX there really isn't a way to do it. (Maybe I am missing something). Since there wouldn't be a fast charger I would have to wait for 8 hours. That is the norm living in Texas. Sometimes you want to go visit small towns and they are just so far out from where I live. That is why I need the ICE. So in my opinion it isn't just about speed but also how do I charge in the places I end up going. I am sure Tesla will hopefully add more super chargers. I think it is a big gap that you can't drive I-10 in Texas yet between S.A. and El Paso. When I drive to Cali that is the way I go.

Long before the Model 3 is available in Texas, which likely won't be until 2018, there should be a supercharger on I-10 in the Kerrville or Junction area which will take care of your example. If it's a trip you make frequently I would suggest installing a NEMA 14-50 at your daughter's house for convenience. While we don't know the specs of the Model 3 yet, I don't think it will be an 8 hour charging time. If it's the same 40A charger as the Model S, it would charge at 29 miles/hr so 200 miles in under 7 hours. As the car will be smaller it should use less Wh/mile so I would expect over 30 miles of rated range per hour of 40A charging.

 

[Justicepool]

I am two months and over 6,000 miles into ownership of a Model S as my only vehicle. Originally, I had planned to buy a 10K to 15K used Toyota Camry to be a backup vehicle. Then, after purchasing the Tesla I decided to hold off and see if I could make it with the Model S as my only vehicle. Now, for the past several years I have had two (ICE) vehicles. A daily driver and a weekend (good weather) sports car. I sold both to get the Model S. My wife and friends have tried to encourage me to get an ICE as a backup, but I'm holding out. I have two business trips coming up that I will likely rent an ice if a supercharger is not up and running on I20 West of Dallas. Now, I could still make the upcoming trip with my Model S without the Supercharger, but it would take more time and planning, and with my work schedule I don't have a lot of free time.

Looking at the trip you outlined from Austin to Leakey, it could easily be made by going through San Marcos and using the Supercharger there with a short charge in Leakey (there are several RV parks in the area with 50 amp service). Like others have said, the best way to get rid of EV range anxiety is to own an EV.

 

[bigmaple1]

Keep in mind for repair times for a Model S (not much history of the Model X yet), there are those repairs done by the service center, and those done by outside repair shops (body shops). Since the car body is mostly made of aluminum, there aren't that many shops to do the repairs, and Tesla parts can be slow. Often this is just as much the fault of insurance claim processing and body shops. For work done at Service Centers, I have not had that much of a problem. Sometimes they need to order parts, but they seem to arrive within a few days or a week at most. I'm sure they will have growing pains, but I have no doubt that they have some pretty serious expansion plans.