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If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

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Well this explains your lack of understanding then. The material harm is hundreds of hours of my time. I would have thought that much was obvious.
If you've logged hundreds (two hundred) of hours of time by adding 13 minutes to each charge, that means you have charged more than 900 times since getting throttled. Since each of them would have been at least a 10-60% charge to be subject to that throttling, that means you did well over 100k miles worth of Supercharging just since being throttled.

Are you certain you're not exaggerating?

Edit: damn, I just looked at your sig. Over a thousand superchargers visited! My mistake. I suspect you really are practicing behaviors that are less than 1% of Tesla owners. If even 1% of owners were visiting Superchargers that often every single station would be continually packed.
 
What does making it right look like? I fully expect that the battery pack in my car will degrade with time. Tesla has never promised and does not owe me that it will stay at 100% of original capacity or 100% of original charge rate forever. So what amount of degradation and what amount of slowdown is acceptable? This is a serious question.
Quoting myself here.

A number of people have responded, but so far every one has ignored the second part of the question: what amount of degradation and what amount of slowdown is acceptable? It's clear that 0% is not a realistic target. So what is a realistic target? 20% reduction in charge speed after 100k miles of Supercharging? 10%? 50%?
 
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The odd thing is that it was always common knowledge that faster charging would cause faster degradation but when Tesla came out with Supercharging and said it wouldn't negatively effect the pack we figured they must have found some solution to the issue. There was even some supporting independent research by Jeff Dahn that faster charging allowed less time for undesirable side reactions to occur. Something didn't go as planned I guess.
 
Quoting myself here.

A number of people have responded, but so far every one has ignored the second part of the question: what amount of degradation and what amount of slowdown is acceptable? It's clear that 0% is not a realistic target. So what is a realistic target? 20% reduction in charge speed after 100k miles of Supercharging? 10%? 50%?
That one is easy. Degradation? 85% in 8 years or something like 200K miles. This can be fudged a bit. But I think 85% of original is critical. Anything more, tesla needs to own up and replace. And 15% in 8 years is pretty generous IMO. It should be less than that.

For charge speed for fast charging? That would be 0%. Thottling was never advertised originally like the battery degradation was. If they are throttling to slow degradation then it goes back to 1) What they should do is never throttle and if the battery degrades to 85% of original capacity, they need to replace the battery as stated under the original warranty. I am 100% they did this for those few early guys who supercharged enough to kill their battery and got free battery replacement. Obviously tesla saw what a *sugar* hole problem it can be and just implemented throttling to protect their bottom line.

I mean this is a debate between tesla fan bois and actually owners who want tesla to own up a return owners charging rate. IMO tesla screwed up and was over confident (think musk's ego) to offer free unlimited supercharging, and unlimited miles battery warranty for 8 years. And pumping out defective batteries in the case of those earlier than 2015 cars (before 90kwh and 75Kwh). Or bad untested product as in the case of the 90kwh and 75kwh pack. Typical of using customers as the beta tester for their products, but not fixing it when things goes wrong and limiting those beta tester.

Let's be honest here and all agree throttling is really tesla's way of protecting their bottom line. Once we all agree on that then we can have a proper discussion.
 
0% compared to which charging speed? Tesla has made multiple modifications that have improved Supercharging speed since the release of these cars. Should they be held to that standard or the original delivery speed?
Again that one is easy. Hold to the original.

The early pre2015 model s had around 120kw charging speed. They neutered that 80kw or something like that because of defective fire hazard battery after the China fire incident.

My 90kwh uses to supercharge up to 116kw and holding that for a while when new. It is 95kw at best now. Mostly staying at 85kw.

So to answer your question. Keep the original. If they limited the original, then they know the limitation of their pack. Instead they were using real customers as beta tester to figure out their battery problem and instead of offering some solution just neutered the charging speed to help their bottomline.
 
is the affected pool now pretty much all 18650 battery packs

I would say yes ;)...I have a 100 E pack and I’m throttled Max 108kw now ...I won’t get in debate about if Tesla’s owes me or not I use the car as I need and that does require excessive supercharging :eek:...my car BMS hit that magic limit for me around 70k miles prior to that I was hitting V3 speeds of around 175kw ..that’s why as much as I want a new X until a new 46xx or 21xx battery pack gets installed I will just drive this one to the ground :confused:
 
Again that one is easy. Hold to the original.

The early pre2015 model s had around 120kw charging speed. They neutered that 80kw or something like that because of defective fire hazard battery after the China fire incident.

My 90kwh uses to supercharge up to 116kw and holding that for a while when new. It is 95kw at best now. Mostly staying at 85kw.

So to answer your question. Keep the original. If they limited the original, then they know the limitation of their pack. Instead they were using real customers as beta tester to figure out their battery problem and instead of offering some solution just neutered the charging speed to help their bottomline.
I had to go back and look for my 90, because I forgot.

110kW peak during my first Supercharging session. The most recent session a few weeks back peaked at 139kW. So mine could have just over a 20% decline in SC speed while still keeping the original speed.
 
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I had to go back and look for my 90, because I forgot.

110kW peak during my first Supercharging session. The most recent session a few weeks back peaked at 139kW. So mine could have just over a 20% decline in SC speed while still keeping the original speed.
Not sure what your point is but that isn't going to happen. If you were to go rack up over 30k supercharger miles on your car, you would be throttled to 95kW max and usually 85kW max just like No2DinosaurFuel. Ask me how I know.
 
It was an exercise to find what people might actually ask for. Apparently 20% is the answer and 0% is the answer. Never mind, it doesn't really matter, as I can't do anything about it anyway.

So I'm sticking with my original take: I'd like to see better disclosure around battery health and charging speed factors. Knowing that you were running down a counter would allow people to make an informed decision around the most expensive component on their car. The only other outcomes I've seen people advocate for (with text or the ever so stylish Disagree and Love buttons) is a zero or near-zero cost replacement battery. I think requesting a replacement battery for zero or nearly zero cost is an unlikely outcome for anyone, but if someone wants to throw a lawyer after it, more power to them. Really.
 
It was an exercise to find what people might actually ask for. Apparently 20% is the answer and 0% is the answer. Never mind, it doesn't really matter, as I can't do anything about it anyway.

So I'm sticking with my original take: I'd like to see better disclosure around battery health and charging speed factors. Knowing that you were running down a counter would allow people to make an informed decision around the most expensive component on their car. The only other outcomes I've seen people advocate for (with text or the ever so stylish Disagree and Love buttons) is a zero or near-zero cost replacement battery. I think requesting a replacement battery for zero or nearly zero cost is an unlikely outcome for anyone, but if someone wants to throw a lawyer after it, more power to them. Really.
Consider the current pricing on S/X cars, now go look at former pricing. I think they can afford to allocate at least one battery replacement for each “early adopter” example sold.
 
Consider the current pricing on S/X cars, now go look at former pricing. I think they can afford to allocate at least one battery replacement for each “early adopter” example sold.

It doesn't really work that way. All the savings that have allowed them to lower the price of the cars didn't exist back then...