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If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,392
626
DFW
It doesn't really work that way. All the savings that have allowed them to lower the price of the cars didn't exist back then...
Then maybe they shouldn’t lower the price now and instead repurpose the profit to take care of those who made today’s success possible. It’s the right thing to do.
 
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mjptech

Being cyberbullied by TMC users PhilDavid + DCEV
Mar 30, 2019
527
197
Ventura
...It’s the right thing to do.

Tesla is in the business of making money - not the right thing :p

If they did the right thing, the issues with all the service centers wouldn't exist; there would be loaners for people dropping off vehicles, and whatnot. But, the bottom line is the bottom line (money) and replacing or "doing the right thing" is usually not financially sound. Hence the removal of free supercharging, the cost cuts on materials, quality control, and so on...
 

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,396
476
Irvine
jeez....all I know is that I have a "F" battery pack and 5800 miles....bought car 30 Jan 20.....only charges to 100% 2 times....mostly charge to 90%.....I cam capped at 98% capacity.....when I supercharge now at Irvine 75kW supercharger, I see anywhere from 45kw to 68kw...last time there, mt SOC was 43%....car started at 68kW and within 5 min, went down to 55kW.....it was 11:45pm....only 4 other cars and I was by myself with no one next to me....in fact there were two stall open on each side of me....after 30 min it went to 45kw......so I changed chargers and I was the only one there....started at 45kw for 5min and went to 55kw for the rest of the time and at 70% is started tapering down so I left....total time was 1hr15 min.....I guess I am throttled, right?......
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,392
626
DFW
jeez....all I know is that I have a "F" battery pack and 5800 miles....bought car 30 Jan 20.....only charges to 100% 2 times....mostly charge to 90%.....I cam capped at 98% capacity.....when I supercharge now at Irvine 75kW supercharger, I see anywhere from 45kw to 68kw...last time there, mt SOC was 43%....car started at 68kW and within 5 min, went down to 55kW.....it was 11:45pm....only 4 other cars and I was by myself with no one next to me....in fact there were two stall open on each side of me....after 30 min it went to 45kw......so I changed chargers and I was the only one there....started at 45kw for 5min and went to 55kw for the rest of the time and at 70% is started tapering down so I left....total time was 1hr15 min.....I guess I am throttled, right?......
Urban superchargers aren’t the best place to test.
 

DarkMatter

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,157
892
Olympia, WA
jeez....all I know is that I have a "F" battery pack and 5800 miles....bought car 30 Jan 20.....only charges to 100% 2 times....mostly charge to 90%.....I cam capped at 98% capacity.....when I supercharge now at Irvine 75kW supercharger, I see anywhere from 45kw to 68kw...last time there, mt SOC was 43%....car started at 68kW and within 5 min, went down to 55kW.....it was 11:45pm....only 4 other cars and I was by myself with no one next to me....in fact there were two stall open on each side of me....after 30 min it went to 45kw......so I changed chargers and I was the only one there....started at 45kw for 5min and went to 55kw for the rest of the time and at 70% is started tapering down so I left....total time was 1hr15 min.....I guess I am throttled, right?......
Not necessarily. Cooling problems will also cause issues, and it's easy to arrive with a battery that isn't warm enough for full rates.

Given the SoC percentages you described, your taper actually sounds as if it could be normal. Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update has some graphs by battery type to give you an idea of what normal peak rates should be.

I did a writeup of what to go through a while back, but the short version is: do a really solid drive of an hour or more navigating to a Supercharger in good weather, ideally a v3 but v2 will do. Arrive at 15% or so SoC. Plug in, confirm that you get a ramp-up to a solid speed within a minute or so. If you don't, try another stall on another module (if v2 or earlier). If you still don't ramp on that Supercharger, confirm that the car is drawing in lots of air at the front to run the air conditioning, even in cold weather.

If you have all the necessary ingredients (working v2/v3 charger, low SoC, warmed battery at arrival, no paired charging, working cooling system) and are still seeing rates that low, with as few miles as you have I would talk to Service. If you haven't done a test with all those ingredients do that first.
 

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,396
476
Irvine
Not necessarily. Cooling problems will also cause issues, and it's easy to arrive with a battery that isn't warm enough for full rates.

Given the SoC percentages you described, your taper actually sounds as if it could be normal. Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update has some graphs by battery type to give you an idea of what normal peak rates should be.

I did a writeup of what to go through a while back, but the short version is: do a really solid drive of an hour or more navigating to a Supercharger in good weather, ideally a v3 but v2 will do. Arrive at 15% or so SoC. Plug in, confirm that you get a ramp-up to a solid speed within a minute or so. If you don't, try another stall on another module (if v2 or earlier). If you still don't ramp on that Supercharger, confirm that the car is drawing in lots of air at the front to run the air conditioning, even in cold weather.

If you have all the necessary ingredients (working v2/v3 charger, low SoC, warmed battery at arrival, no paired charging, working cooling system) and are still seeing rates that low, with as few miles as you have I would talk to Service. If you haven't done a test with all those ingredients do that first.
will do ....thank you
 

PLUS EV

Running on Empty
Sep 16, 2016
6,620
10,677
Seattle
jeez....all I know is that I have a "F" battery pack and 5800 miles....bought car 30 Jan 20.....only charges to 100% 2 times....mostly charge to 90%.....I cam capped at 98% capacity.....when I supercharge now at Irvine 75kW supercharger, I see anywhere from 45kw to 68kw...last time there, mt SOC was 43%....car started at 68kW and within 5 min, went down to 55kW.....it was 11:45pm....only 4 other cars and I was by myself with no one next to me....in fact there were two stall open on each side of me....after 30 min it went to 45kw......so I changed chargers and I was the only one there....started at 45kw for 5min and went to 55kw for the rest of the time and at 70% is started tapering down so I left....total time was 1hr15 min.....I guess I am throttled, right?......
You can't just charge at one supercharger and then complain that you are throttled. There are many, many different possibilities. But when you go on a road trip and you are consistently capped at 108kW or 95kW or whatever the number is for your battery type at supercharger after supercharger after supercharger, you will know.
 

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,396
476
Irvine
You can't just charge at one supercharger and then complain that you are throttled. There are many, many different possibilities. But when you go on a road trip and you are consistently capped at 108kW or 95kW or whatever the number is for your battery type at supercharger after supercharger after supercharger, you will know.
well I am not just complaining because of one supercharger....it was happened at: El Centro, Irvine, San Clemente, Temecula, San Diego, Santa Ana, Yuma, Westminster and San Juan Capistrano.....I may have only mentioned one, but my point was it has happened at just about all superchargers I have visited.....from 700 miles to current 5800 miles....I do charge at home also....
 

Oil4AsphaultOnly

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,023
5,711
Arcadia, CA
Tesla is in the business of making money - not the right thing :p

If they did the right thing, the issues with all the service centers wouldn't exist; there would be loaners for people dropping off vehicles, and whatnot. But, the bottom line is the bottom line (money) and replacing or "doing the right thing" is usually not financially sound. Hence the removal of free supercharging, the cost cuts on materials, quality control, and so on...

I'm neither of those that your signature references, but I can tell from your post that you have an ax to grind. There's a pretty wide distinction between making money to stay solvent and being in the business of making money. Hedge Funds are in the business of making money. Thrift stores make enough to stay solvent. Running the service department to not be a profit center isn't at the same level as a non-profit, but certainly not in "the business of making money". I don't think you've dealt with enough auto service centers yet (from dealerships down to the neighborhood garage).

Edit: TL;DR - Tesla service aren't saints, but they're pretty far from the money grubbers that you're painting them to be.
 

mjptech

Being cyberbullied by TMC users PhilDavid + DCEV
Mar 30, 2019
527
197
Ventura
I'm neither of those that your signature references, but I can tell from your post that you have an ax to grind. There's a pretty wide distinction between making money to stay solvent and being in the business of making money. Hedge Funds are in the business of making money. Thrift stores make enough to stay solvent. Running the service department to not be a profit center isn't at the same level as a non-profit, but certainly not in "the business of making money". I don't think you've dealt with enough auto service centers yet (from dealerships down to the neighborhood garage).

Edit: TL;DR - Tesla service aren't saints, but they're pretty far from the money grubbers that you're painting them to be.

No "ax" to grind, but, I'm just reciting what many comments and posts relay here - if you haven't come across them, then, that's a different story - maybe hang out more in the Model X forums and you'll see that what I wrote are the common complaints:
1 - No loaners
2 - Lack of response/timely fixes
3 - Being told "it's normal" when it isn't

Tesla is ABSOLUTELY in the business of making money - they are a public company. The small garages, independent dealership franchises, and the like, can do many things because they need the repeat customer business. Tesla, once they've sold you their product, HAVE YOU. If I buy a Kia, I can go to ANYONE to get it worked on... If I buy a Tesla, I am at their mercy. They can disable features, they can do what they please (again, these are DOCUMENTED and public). And in terms of dealing with various garages - please don't presume to know who/what I deal with or work with - yes, I've worked with many franchise owners of different brands, service departments, independents, and so on (and still do, to this day).

You may have a different experience with your "3" - but with us "X" owners - there are many complaints about the way we receive service, the quality control, and whatnot. Problems such as the shudder, bad falcon sensors, yellowing LCD screens, and so on are considered "normal" and you have to fight to have Tesla take care of them, if they do. Musk has made promises, yet, Tesla has failed to deliver on them (e.g. loaners for everyone).

If you're disagreeing with me, so be it - but, spend time looking at the other posts in the forum and you'll see what I wrote is common. I'll go back to sharpening the "ax" and put it in the shed since I don't need to chop down anything that hasn't already been.
 

kavyboy

Active Member
Jan 13, 2016
1,284
2,208
Spring, TX
Not true. My S2015D used to max out at 112-114 KW but now it’s around 100KW and drops within minutes to 80KW. That’s at optimal conditions. Above 80% SOC is now down to about 20-30KW.
Same here. 2015 S70. Used to be that SOC + rate would be 125. (For example, 30% charge would get me about 95 KW.) That number slowly crept down to about 120. Then the dreaded firmware update hit and my magic number is now 100.
Range has held steady at 216 miles @ 90% which is fantastic.
 

P85_DA

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,220
2,950
CA
ve a "F" battery pack and 5800 miles.
100,75 ??? As others have mentioned u were at an urban charger ...el centro I get slow speeds in summer mainly due to the heat and those are V2s ...all those other chargers u have mentioned are also a bunch of beat up V2s ie Santa Ana ...SJC so wouldn’t expect high speeds there also ;)
 

maximizese

Member
Jan 16, 2018
484
464
California
Tesla is in the business of making money - not the right thing :p

If they did the right thing, the issues with all the service centers wouldn't exist; there would be loaners for people dropping off vehicles, and whatnot. But, the bottom line is the bottom line (money) and replacing or "doing the right thing" is usually not financially sound. Hence the removal of free supercharging, the cost cuts on materials, quality control, and so on...

I would generally agree to the spirit of what you're saying, but disagree with what you actually said.

1) I'm not even sure if Musk believes they are in the business of making money, rather they are in the business of revolutionizing a historically monopolistic/oligarchy industry between oil/energy, autos, and utilities. He seems to be more motivated by the figures of success such as deliveries, product announcements/hype, global expansion, brand prestige, growing the marketshare of EVs, etc. Notice he's not afraid to say the stock price is overpriced, but he hints he's undervalued 3-5 years out.

2) Doing the right thing often times makes smart business and dollar sense. Often times it is very expensive to do the wrong thing when you factor in the loss of goodwill, brand prestige, litigation cost, investigations, recalls, etc. OTA revisions were generally thought to be a game-changer in the cost of recalls and updates. With respect to the topic at hand, "throttled Supercharging," it is too early to know if this was the dollar smart thing to do because we simply don't have enough information currently.

3) I would agree that doing the right thing would be to fix the issues at both the Service Centers AND fix the production process so repairs are reliant on the Service Centers to fix post-deliveries (I think management is too focused on deliveries and not the quality of the units delivered...imagine a fine-dining restaurant with a chef sending out plates that aren't acceptable, the customer gets annoyed, the wait-staff has to do 4X more work, all the cooks and dishwashers have to do double, and the owner loses on material cost for every re-fire).

I disagree that loaners not being available would qualify as a "not the right thing," unless it was previously stated that a loaner would be made available, but then again I'm within jogging distance to my Service Center and have other vehicles to drive. Finally removal of free Supercharging falls into the same category unless they removed it without mutual consent. I thought they did the right thing by not focusing on making money through the Supercharging revenue, but to focus on the expansion and maintenance of the infrastructure.

So there you have it, my opinion, which agrees with the spirit of what you said but in a nit-picky kind of way...I hope you don't mind :)

Post Script: I read your follow-up response and completely agree that Tesla saying "it's normal" when it absolutely is not the way it was intended to operate or outside the "fleet of owners" is very wrong and shameful. I would also prefer Tesla to stop fighting the "right to repair" and not try to stymie 3rd party support. Their Service Centers aren't cutting it...it's time to get out of the way.
 
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r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,396
476
Irvine
100,75 ??? As others have mentioned u were at an urban charger ...el centro I get slow speeds in summer mainly due to the heat and those are V2s ...all those other chargers u have mentioned are also a bunch of beat up V2s ie Santa Ana ...SJC so wouldn’t expect high speeds there also ;)
100kW....thanks
 
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P85_DA

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,220
2,950
CA
100kW....thanks

doesn’t appear that u are throttled I didn’t get nerfed till around 70k miles and a bunch of SuC uses ...yours seems to be a factor of V2 chargers ...heat and maybe not arriving with a low enough SOc ...try the new V3s at San Clemente u should at least hit 175 briefly
 
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r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,396
476
Irvine
doesn’t appear that u are throttled I didn’t get nerfed till around 70k miles and a bunch of SuC uses ...yours seems to be a factor of V2 chargers ...heat and maybe not arriving with a low enough SOc ...try the new V3s at San Clemente u should at least hit 175 briefly
thank you......I charged from 32% at Fountain Valley....Started at 68kW then went to 115kW....then tapered down....SO I believe you are correct....I will try the V3's at San Clemente next time if I can...thanks again
 

P85_DA

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,220
2,950
CA
thank you......I charged from 32% at Fountain Valley....Started at 68kW then went to 115kW....then tapered down....SO I believe you are correct....I will try the V3's at San Clemente next time if I can...thanks again

Also I’m sure your aware to preheat battery to get faster charge at the SuC you set navigate to charger to get faster times at start
 
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Pruitt

Pontificating the obvious
Jun 27, 2014
511
606
Casper WY
As I recall, someone initiated a class-action suit about the battery capping and emasculated charge rates for the 85 and "derivative" batteries to force Tesla to restore what they took away or compensate the owners in some fashion. Haven't heard anything it for a year or more. Is that still underway, was it dropped, or...?
 
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