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If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Naonak, May 4, 2017.

  1. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    I'm not sure one can clearly say the majority of 90s. If you're going by anecdotes here you're going to get a skewed result. The broadest actual data sample we have is unfortunately the ABRP one from 2019, which shows many of the 90 batteries still charging at high rates. Owners like me have gotten even higher charge rates since then, and even some people in this thread have reported a recent resolution to some of their rate throttling. So we know it's some cars, but 'the majority' would be just as bad an assumption as 'very few'.
     
  2. Chaserr

    Chaserr Hyperactive Hyperdrive

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    For all we know it will progress from a few to some to all of them just like the MCU1 recall. That went from "some" to "100%" in a hurry.
     
  3. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    #2583 Rocky_H, Jan 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
    I am not confused in the least.
    Yes, you certainly are. You are totally wrong about this. They HAVE fixed it.

    Yes, and I just said exactly that! They have a legal issue about saying what they were going to deliver, and then removing some of that capability. THAT is the legal issue they do have, and people are certainly pursuing cases about that.

    It's not both. The dangerous issue is gone, but they resolved that by creating a legal problem.
     
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  4. Chaserr

    Chaserr Hyperactive Hyperdrive

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    #2584 Chaserr, Jan 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
    Please help me, you sound confident the fire recall has been fixed. Point me to the safety recall proving they fixed it and the fix has been verified by the proper authority. I'm not seeing it and believe me, I have looked because that document would have been paper mailed to me in accordance with the law and Tesla would have marked my VIN as completed on the federal Recall once the repair had been verified.

    It looks like this when it has been done: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCLRPT-20V609-7668.PDF

    Volkswagens CEO went to prison over a real world example of your RPM hypothetical. I hope Tesla just does a recall and apologises.
     
  5. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    Given that there have been improvements for some folks, we really have nothing to go on. Anything is a guess, from 'it will be totally fixed' to 'everything is going to get bad'. Both have very similar cases behind them.
     
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  6. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    There was a battery recall? I know there was an investigation, I didn't know that it had resulted in a recall. U.S. agency reviews whether 2,000 Teslas should have been recalled is the one I'm thinking of, the one that hits 85 batteries and reduces both charging speed and range.
     
  7. Chaserr

    Chaserr Hyperactive Hyperdrive

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    If the fire problem was fixed there WOULD be a recall. Unfortunately, I see no evidence it has been fixed. Rocky is claiming there was a recall already, and I believe he is incorrect but I'm hoping he can back what he claimed. It would help some 60k of us Tesla owners be made whole right away.
     
  8. tkizzy

    tkizzy Member

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    #2588 tkizzy, Jan 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
    Just wanted to add my 10 cents regarding 85d battery pack. A couple points:
    -I noticed that in recent months, we rarely get over 60 KW, except one time on a road trip it briefly went up over 110, but other times been getting as low as 40 kW at 30% SOC, even though it said pre-conditioning battery as the nav led us to the charger.
    -having not charged the car to 100% in quite a while I finally did just that to ‘stretch its legs’ or whatever at a supercharger, and it appeared to continue charging for a long time after it reached 100% on the displays. Seems like evidence of some sort of software limiting gone wrong...then again MCU1 is a flawed piece of garbage so maybe just buggy?
    -at 50-60% (and other) SOC am seeing the dashed yellow regen limit/warning even at 50-60°F, and getting the top end power dashed line/warning when hard accelerating.
    JPEG image 2.jpeg JPEG image 4.jpeg 731D92ED-6F7A-49DA-9D9B-5D4A06076F55.jpeg

    IF they are indeed imposing these limits to run out the warranties and pass the buck to the consumer, I think that’s wrong. If there are limits they want to impose on new vehicles that’s fine, but these (even more expensive at the time) vehicles were delivered based on performance promises, and an 8 year unlimited mile battery warranty to boot. If early adopters were at first hesitant to speak ill of the promising upstart that was Tesla because of its important role in instigating the world’s transition to renewable transportation, that moment has passed. As the most valuable automaker in the world and its success assured, they should be rewarding their longest-term supporters by, at the very least, honoring the spirit of their original warranty.
     
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  9. Dublin 'Eer

    Dublin 'Eer Member

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    I have a 75 and not an 85, but with Tesla’s market cap where it is now, they could easily afford to offer the original owners who still have their 85s a sweetheart deal for new batteries. Tesla is now in the position to take care of those who were the early adopters and took a leap of faith. These people helped lay the groundwork which allowed Elon to become the richest person in the world.
     
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  10. Pruitt

    Pruitt Pontificating the obvious

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    Talking about certainty from hard facts, you're right. I made a few deductions to reach my conclusion regarding the majority of 90's.
    • As far as I can tell, those who got 48.26 got their battery charge rates restored to at least some extent (Please correct me if that's wrong).
    • A couple weeks ago I looked at a spreadsheet that was recording updates (sorry, I can't tell you the specific source), and at that time it indicated that less than 10 90's had received the update.
    • A week or so ago I saw a post that mentioned that NO cars with MCU1 had received the update as of that time.
      • I think most of the 90's were delivered with MCU1 since it was a short-lived battery option.
      • I am making the assumption that most 90's delivered with MCU1 still have MCU1 (if that's incorrect, please say so).
    So my conclusion is that most 90 cars have not received the update to improve the battery charging rate (that would be the majority).

    If anyone KNOWS differently, please educate me!
     
  11. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    I have a 90D from the last month of 90 pack production. It has MCU1 still. So far as I know every 90 shipped with MCU1 as MCU2 didn't show up until a year later. I've received two software updates in the last two weeks, both current with what I see leading the rest of the fleet. So far as I know my car isn't special in any way that would cause it to get these updates.
     
  12. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    The MCU is not solely responsible for charge limiting.

    If you haven't watched at a 100% charge recently: it can sit at 100% for quite a long time before completing the charge, depending on the current state of balance of your pack. I've seen over an hour before between 100% and the charge being declared complete.
     
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  13. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    As for regen limit, that’s normal if your car sits at ambient temps under 70F for several hours, regardless of SoC.
     
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  14. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    Exactly, this is battery issue for my car and among other stuffs is why I dont recommend tesla to my friends anymore. Actually I recommend against it and point them to other alternatives. I ask them why not risk it with other brand. With tesla you know you are a beta tester and they will screw you down the road. Other brands might also do that, but at least there is a chance they dont.

    I hear on market place podcadt yesterday or the day before that most EV owner love their EV but many (> 80% or something like that) would choose another brand for their 2nd EV. I wonder why...
     
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  15. Oil4AsphaultOnly

    Oil4AsphaultOnly Supporting Member

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    You might want to check that JD Power survey a little closer. Most of the people who want another brand are non-Tesla buyers.
     
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  16. Chaserr

    Chaserr Hyperactive Hyperdrive

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    I checked it,he's right.

    This describes me perfectly and is a really common theme on Tesla forums "love the car hate the company" pops up a lot.

    Study: EV Owners Satisfied with EV Experience, Seek More Choices
     
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  17. Oil4AsphaultOnly

    Oil4AsphaultOnly Supporting Member

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    #2597 Oil4AsphaultOnly, Jan 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
    You should take this as a clue into your own bias. You seemed to have missed this point (from your link):
    "When the owner satisfaction with the vehicle is high, the intended loyalty to that brand is certainly high as well,"
    "Satisfaction among owners of premium BEVs offering the availability of public charging is 235 points higher than among owners of mass-market BEVs that typically don't. This finding is mainly due to Tesla owners' higher satisfaction with the Tesla public charging network. The existence and effectiveness of that network also have a marked effect on intended loyalty."

    With Tesla models ranking highest in owner satisfaction, how do you conclude that No2DinosaurFuel is right?

    Here's an older survey that came to the same conclusion: Cars.com Study Suggests EV Owners Lack Brand Loyalty, Aside from Tesla's Cult-Like Following
    "Cars.com Study Suggests EV Owners Lack Brand Loyalty, Aside from Tesla's Cult-Like Following"

    Edit: Trust me, as someone who has experience with other brands' EVs, Tesla is better. Any issues with their service is merely a difference of expectation (people are used to doing things a specific way regardless of whether or not it's objectively better). I've never had any issues that weren't resolved to my satisfaction.
     
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  18. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    Do you have the link to the actual survey numbers? Otherwise from the link provided, I think you are also bias. The statement stated says nothing about the numbers, other than it was "higher." I would want to see the numbers broken out to be sure it is indeed really the majority. Otherwise, all I can conclude from the article is the fast charging network is why people like a certain brand. If this is the case, going forward, more people will want other brand because the charging network is getting better and better.

    O btw, I have the opposite experience. I also had another EV on a lease, and from day one to return date 3 years later with 45K miles, no issues. My tesla had tons of issues mostly addressed before the warranty was out. Though there are now more problems in addition to the usual battery problem.
     
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  19. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    I do have to say as someone who started interacting with them in 2016 that the inability to talk with someone on the phone took me a while to get over. Now that I am used to it the app+texting is great, but having it taken away as an option was quite the grumble. Tesla has been excellent about resolving actual issues, the best of the four companies that I have had a new vehicle warranty with, *except* for the MCU1 storage problems. They say it is still fine but it has clearly decayed, just not enough for their warranty to kick in. I am actually hoping for the recall to happen to clear this up and maybe have them learn something.

    Edit: and EV service on our Kia has been a headache despite the local dealer being pretty good.
     
  20. Chaserr

    Chaserr Hyperactive Hyperdrive

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    Using charging network size as a reason NOT to buy an EV is 8 year old argument that my experiences as an owner already know is FUD. I didn't fall for it then and I'm not falling for it now. I'm surprised anyone in a Tesla crowd would repeat the oil industrys failed tries to stop us from buying EVs. The supercharger network hasn't grown as fast the last year or two but before that it was blossoming at an incredible rate, and you would think owners would know.

    @DarkMatter Tesla Service is about to get bettr. The future if the company required it - if they keep the same level of service we are subjected to right now the semi truck will be a massive public failure and commercial sales of pickup trucks won't hsppen. One of Tesla's biggest reasons to improve anything is public outcry, and the commercial trucking won't be able to stay quiet with slow and unresponsive service. Service as we have now will embarrass Elon, and that isn't going to happen do the only way forward is repairing Tesla's broken service.
     

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