It's a 100 mile trip. KC to Columbia is about 100 miles. Please stop trolling and go start your own thread to ruin. It's also 1 datapoint for high SoC arrival. Low SoC arrival will be worse.
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It's a 100 mile trip. KC to Columbia is about 100 miles. Please stop trolling and go start your own thread to ruin. It's also 1 datapoint for high SoC arrival. Low SoC arrival will be worse.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Got where, first ?Hey, at least Forbes got there first. Electrek and Teslarati continuing their silence as usual on any thorny Tesla topic?
Treating speculation as fact ?
Heaping on innuendo ?
Well done, Forbes.
Why does his CHAdeMO charging matter to you so much and @mkjayakumar, though? It seems like a personal attack to belittle the OP and his issue, and has no bearing on the rest of the conversation. He used a feature of his car and his local infrastructure.
He was not warned beforehand by the manufacturer to not do so - and the throttling has now happened and according to Tesla is permanent. Questioning his motivations about CHAdeMO charging after the fact seem quite pointless.
Unless the idea is a personal attack, of course.
Electrek and Teslarati report on speculation and innuendo all the time - and usually super fast. But with the counters (Ludicrous and now DC charging) their treatment of the issue has been different.
Just noting a change in behavior. Now it has been days and even Forbes got there before the EV-specific sites.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
OP keeps saying that the throttling is a big deal because it adds 3-5 minutes to each SC stop, but he chooses to spend hours at ChaDemo chargers rather than waste no time charging at home. And as I said multiple times already, if he had not pursued this perverse charging strategy over the past year he would not have any throttling at all.
If you cannot see the contradictions and irony here, I cannot help you.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
BS.
You are insinuating that those publications are not reporting negative news. Except there was no news, just one service center note and a couple of anecdotes. And even now that we know that this is a real thing, we don't know any details yet.
You are applying your set of values to the OPs situation, here. I don't see how that is ever relevant in a conversation, other than as a comment on your own values. Telling others how to value things or live their lives is no concern of ours, as it is a personal angle to take. Whatever the OP values, is for him to decide. Whatever his emotions, they are his. For all I know, using the CHAdeMO charger takes him less time than using an AC charger, or the same. I don't know how he lives, what his options are and it is all quite irrelevant.
Actually, it is also quite irrelevant also that the OP is displeased with the delay in his long-range driving. I can sympathize a fellow TMC member, but that alone would be of no concern of mine. What we - unless we want to make this personal - should IMO concern ourselves with are the facts that matter in a broader sense:
1) Was the OP using the car as recommended by the manfacturer?
2) Is the OP being truthful?
3) How long is Supercharging really slowed down by throttling?
4) Has manufacturer disclosed everything they need to regarding charging?
5) And finally, what would an average, reasonable person think about all this?
Judgement calls like where the OP likes to spend his time or how he values time are completely irrelevant and highly personal. We are all humans and we feel differently about things. And it is OK. What should concern us are the facts.
That's why @ohmman 's point about the real delay caused by throttling and its significance overall was a fair point in my opinion. The individual emotions attached to numbers vary from person to person, but putting a number on it, is something that helps pinpoint the facts. How big of a throttling is speculated to be employed here? Once we have that, we can of course discuss what the average, reasonable response would be.
Irrelevant. First of all, we don't know what the throttling limit is, he might have gotten there through Supercharging eventually as well. But most importantly, if he was not advised by manufacturer or reasonable common knowledge to avoid DC charging, then all this is hindsight and of no actual value - his missing the limitations would thus have been a co-incidence, not the result of any knowing action.
Seeing that even places like TMC discuss DC charging at home as a viable option, it was not common knowledge or advised by manufacturer to avoid CHAdeMO use. DC charging has mostly been avoided because of its limited availability (highly region dependent, though), not because it was known to be something to avoid.
I am stating the fact that both Teslarati and Electrek have been slow to report the Ludicrous and DC charging counters. Indeed slower than Forbes now.
To me, indeed, it seems like a change in behavior, because otherwise even minute details - often-times much more speculative than an actual Tesla service report scanned here - have been reported quickly by these sites.
So, yes, IMO there is a change in behavior in these instances.
You know, there are times when you don't have 3 minutes to spare because your loved ones are waiting for you and there are times when you have many more to spare because you are sipping a nice coffee in your favourite joint catching up on silly emails. Stick to the subject instead of trying to second guess a fellow member.
It seems to me an attempt to find logical fallacy in OP's post, which I guess could be a diversion tactic of sort. Then again, I can certainly also see @SageBrush being genuinely baffled by OP's logic on this. I have no problem with that opinion, if so. It is the continued questioning of personal choices that I find uncool and most of all unhelpful.
@Naonak being silly, abnormal or even unreasonable is completely beside the point, if what he does regarding Tesla is within the published specs and guidelines and is reasonable. If it is, and Tesla is found out not acting within the published specs and guidelines and what is reasonable, then that's the problem to discuss. @Naonak 's other actions are irrelevant.
It is no concern of mine (or IMO ours) either if some people like to charge their Teslas while naked. It may be IMO odd and perhaps that tendency would have even avoided the dreaded DC charging because they like to do it in the privacy of their garage (unless they installed CHAdeMO there), but again, it is completely irrelevant.
Even if @Naonak is completely illogical and bat*hit crazy (not saying he is, just a hypothetical), but still uses his Tesla in a way that is within the guidelines, that is all that matters. To then use the notion that @Naonak is completely illogical and bat*hit crazy to somehow invalidate or belittle a valid claim of his would simply be wrong. Indeed that is the definition of an ad hominem or personal attack... you are crazy ergo your valid comment is to be ignored.
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This here, by the way, is a great example of ad hominem I am discussing in the post above.
Instead of talking or arguing the merits of the article itself at all, it is a commentary on the writer.
I am updating my summary from message #385 with the latest. To summarize the recent data points we have on DC charging causing throttling/degradation:
1) A scanned service report from Tesla via @Naonak (plus original report of course) (in U.S.)
2) We also have @jbcarioca calling a Tesla service center where the tech recalled DC degradation issues with "H" packs (in U.S.)
3) We have an initial confirmation (after a recollection) that famed Tesla user @Bjorn had noticed this throttling on his car, Bjorn is a noted Tesla enthusiast and vlogger (in Norway)
4) @ODE90D having heard "unofficially" from several Tesla employees about this, so not necessarily a first-hand report of throttling (in Italy)
5) @El Boricua has suspected throttling of his car that he Superchargers due to lack of apartment charging, not confirmed throttling (in U.S.)
6) The mileage mentioned by Naonak and ODE90D is around the 30,000 miles region, after/around which this is said/speculated to happen with frequent DC charging usage
7) So far, most of the above reports seem to be of 90 kWh cars (Naonak, Bjorn, ODE90D, El Boricua), with some 85 kWh owners like @yobigd20 with high mileage chiming in reports of no throttling, as also noted by e.g. @jelloslug in the other thread
8) There is at least one report from an 85 kWh owner, as noted by @Panu over here
@MP3Mike kindly collected the affected @Naonak's specs in one post:
Finally, Forbes has published a summary/opinion piece on this:
Use It, And Lose It: 'Clandestine Counters' Cause Tesla Revolt
Did I miss anything?
1) A scanned service report from Tesla via @Naonak (plus original report of course) (in U.S.)
2) We also have @jbcarioca calling a Tesla service center where the tech recalled DC degradation issues with "H" packs (in U.S.)
3) We have an initial confirmation (after a recollection) that famed Tesla user @Bjorn had noticed this throttling on his car, Bjorn is a noted Tesla enthusiast and vlogger (in Norway)
4) @ODE90D having heard "unofficially" from several Tesla employees about this, so not necessarily a first-hand report of throttling (in Italy)
5) @El Boricua has suspected throttling of his car that he Superchargers due to lack of apartment charging, not confirmed throttling (in U.S.)
6) The mileage mentioned by Naonak and ODE90D is around the 30,000 miles region, after/around which this is said/speculated to happen with frequent DC charging usage
7) So far, most of the above reports seem to be of 90 kWh cars (Naonak, Bjorn, ODE90D, El Boricua), with some 85 kWh owners like @yobigd20 with high mileage chiming in reports of no throttling, as also noted by e.g. @jelloslug in the other thread
8) There is at least one report from an 85 kWh owner, as noted by @Panu over here
@MP3Mike kindly collected the affected @Naonak's specs in one post:
We also have this counter-example from @thefortunes, a non-affected heavy DC user:
Finally, Forbes has published a summary/opinion piece on this:
Use It, And Lose It: 'Clandestine Counters' Cause Tesla Revolt
Did I miss anything?
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Acrono
Member
Personally, this would be deeply upsetting if this is officially confirmed true by Tesla in a blog post. Slowly decreasing SpC charging speed is definitely impactful.
Let me add some context. I live in an apartment complex that doesn't have electrical wiring at all in the parking garage. The HOA also refuses to install any EV charging stations of any sort. Three other Tesla owners live in my building as well. We happen to live within a mile of a SpC, and were actively encrouaged by the Tesla store when making our purchase to charge at said SpC. Hence, I charge at least twice weekly, almost exclusively with SpC's. Furthermore, the area around me (and my office, which is just up the street; and no, my office doesn't have an EV charger or outlets either) have dozens of apartment complexes. None of those have EV chargers installed either. A friend of mine lives in another apartment nearby and there are 4 other Teslas in his parking garage. Again, same thing, they all charge at the local SpC just up the road. Hence, the Lone Tree SpC is one of the busiest in the country, as there's almost always a queue of 4-5 cars (even at midnight, there's usually 3 or 4 people there). Especially during lunch time, I've seen a line a dozen long.
Let me add some context. I live in an apartment complex that doesn't have electrical wiring at all in the parking garage. The HOA also refuses to install any EV charging stations of any sort. Three other Tesla owners live in my building as well. We happen to live within a mile of a SpC, and were actively encrouaged by the Tesla store when making our purchase to charge at said SpC. Hence, I charge at least twice weekly, almost exclusively with SpC's. Furthermore, the area around me (and my office, which is just up the street; and no, my office doesn't have an EV charger or outlets either) have dozens of apartment complexes. None of those have EV chargers installed either. A friend of mine lives in another apartment nearby and there are 4 other Teslas in his parking garage. Again, same thing, they all charge at the local SpC just up the road. Hence, the Lone Tree SpC is one of the busiest in the country, as there's almost always a queue of 4-5 cars (even at midnight, there's usually 3 or 4 people there). Especially during lunch time, I've seen a line a dozen long.
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??? Was that in response to a specific post?
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Just a speculation. So it seems that this DC charging power cap happens on mostly 90kWh cars with H packs. Did these H packs also experience early degradation? I vaguely remember that some early 90kWh packs had bigger than usual degradation at their early stages of life.
I've mailed and tweeted Fred Lambert about this.Hey, at least Forbes got there first. Electrek and Teslarati continuing their silence as usual on any thorny Tesla topic?
A 1200 mile trip for the OP is a short trip for him? Jesus. And he still bought an electric car? I don't know if he's just a dedicated environmentalist, or if he's just nuts because that kind of use case is just about the worst possible scenario for a BEV. A hybrid car or even just a straight ICE would seem to be much more ideal for that situation if time is so sensitive for him that an additional five minutes per charge session is a deal breaker to the point where he'd prefer battery degradation over a slightly slower charge time. I don't know if I should applaud his dedication to the EV cause, or recoil in horror at the effort he's making to stick to it. I guess I'll have to settle for doing both.
OP: you have both my admiration and shock at what you're willing to endure to drive an EV.
As to the topic itself, if things are exactly as the OP laid out and there's some actual counter that can be triggered to slow max charge rate (and as some others have pointed out, this was not confirmed in the attached files and could just be a badly worded statement written down), honestly, it seems like a minor issue to me. The actual people affected would be small, and even for them the actual consequences are fairly minor. As ohm has pointed out, the actual effect of the change is minor since max charge rate is only a small portion of any charge session, if its ever reached at all. The only real problem would be the lack of transparency, which others have pointed out, and if its true, Tesla should just inform the people who might be affected. Protecting battery longevity is a good thing, just be honest about it. Clear, honest communication goes a long way to keeping customers happy and preventing panic echo chambers where people start to assume the worst.
OP: you have both my admiration and shock at what you're willing to endure to drive an EV.
As to the topic itself, if things are exactly as the OP laid out and there's some actual counter that can be triggered to slow max charge rate (and as some others have pointed out, this was not confirmed in the attached files and could just be a badly worded statement written down), honestly, it seems like a minor issue to me. The actual people affected would be small, and even for them the actual consequences are fairly minor. As ohm has pointed out, the actual effect of the change is minor since max charge rate is only a small portion of any charge session, if its ever reached at all. The only real problem would be the lack of transparency, which others have pointed out, and if its true, Tesla should just inform the people who might be affected. Protecting battery longevity is a good thing, just be honest about it. Clear, honest communication goes a long way to keeping customers happy and preventing panic echo chambers where people start to assume the worst.
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