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Data point...I’m learning so your thoughts are welcomed. From my observation it appears Tesla’s plan all along was for us to use home/destination chargers as primary.
Nov 2014 build MS 85 with 117,000 miles and counting on the original battery. Mostly home charging. It was +20F outside on a road trip from NJ to Pittsburgh, PA when I took this picture. I’m looking forward to the next 100k miles.
Supercharging at a Tesla SC up from 15% at 114kW, 354mi/hr. If I can protect this I’ll continue home charging and occasional Tesla SC and destination chargers, avoiding other brands of DC fast chargers.
Good info in this thread. Thank you.
Nov 2014 build MS 85 with 117,000 miles and counting on the original battery. Mostly home charging. It was +20F outside on a road trip from NJ to Pittsburgh, PA when I took this picture. I’m looking forward to the next 100k miles.
Supercharging at a Tesla SC up from 15% at 114kW, 354mi/hr. If I can protect this I’ll continue home charging and occasional Tesla SC and destination chargers, avoiding other brands of DC fast chargers.
Good info in this thread. Thank you.
If you're willing to supercharge, there's no reason to avoid Chademo stations (the only other type of DC fast charging a Tesla can use) - if anything, the lower peak charge rate of Chademo stations is less potentially damaging to the battery.
On the other hand, I wouldn't worry about supercharging on an 85kWh battery. The peak rate is around 1.4C (@119kW), which is really nothing to worry about.
85 Packs don't seem to suffer from throttling so far, so I wouldn't worry about it, either.
There has been some speculation that CHADeMo might be worse for the battery because it is at higher temperatures longer due to charge rate. Whereas the SC will be done charging sooner than the CHADeMo, but the active cooling might negate much of the issue... it's anyones guess at this point and I'd wager on CHADeMo and SC being pretty darn similar as far as battery degradation goes.
There has been some speculation that CHADeMo might be worse for the battery because it is at higher temperatures longer due to charge rate. Whereas the SC will be done charging sooner than the CHADeMo, but the active cooling might negate much of the issue... it's anyones guess at this point and I'd wager on CHADeMo and SC being pretty darn similar as far as battery degradation goes.
I know that there is a company in Los Angeles that is operating a car service, (according to the driver I met at an SC), with 7 model S's. She told me that they are not experiencing any throttling. The car she was driving had close to 80,000 miles and charges almost exclusively at SCs.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Anyone know if this sort of statement is in the latest versions of owners manuals for Model S and X? Newer cars, that is, especially ones with larger batteries?
And please forgive me for not having read all 90+ pages of this thread, but has anyone or can anyone summarize what we know about the degree of restriction on supercharging that is being done? Or what the conditions are that result in such restrictions (how many supercharging cycles, etc.)? I ask because I am trying to decide whether or not to keep my current car or get something else. And in my first year of ownership, I used Superchargers most of the time for routine charging, simply because I did not yet have a charging station at home. (I live in a condo and it took a year to get permission to install a charging station.)
Thanks to anyone who can provide a reasonable summary of what is known on this topic.
The original 70 battery pack was also correctly advertised with a reported 71.2 kWh capacity.
I am still seeing a 114 kW supercharging rate with approximately 30K miles on the clock...
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How would you characterize the amount of high speed DC-DC charging cycles you have used? Did you use Superchargers only for long trips away from home? Or did you use them more routinely? I understand the issue is that cars with some (unknown?) number of high speed charging cycles get limited. Just trying to relate your experience to my 70D, which now has similar mileage to yours. I used Superchargers rather routinely in my first year, out of practical necessity until i could charge at home.
I have heard that it only affects v1 of the 90D batteries, which I have, so I haven't really kept up with the thread if it also affected v2 or v3 of the 90D batteries or others such as your 70D or the newest 100D versions. I'm out of warranty and not going to pay for a battery swap / replacement just to get full power at a supercharger as I don't think a battery swap / replacement is cheap.
My supercharging is capped at 95 kW max and it happened at about the 200th supercharger visit but I don't know what total kWh added level that was but it was around 25,000 miles on the vehicle. I used superchargers during road trips but drove ~35,000 miles in the first year so I was throttled after just 6 months of owning the car so now I get to live with this. Tesla never informed me before, during, or after buying the car that the supercharging would ever be throttled.
Until we get 200Kwh packs or higher, I am going to assume throttling will happen to all tesla even the current mighty 100D. You really need to charge at less than 1C to reduce throttling issue IMO. At 200KWh you are around 0.6C when using 120KW charger so it will probably eliminate throttling. But by then I am sure tesla will have 350KW supercharger which means we really need 600KWh battery pack to eliminate supercharging throttling.
I think all in all this will be the fact going forward if you fast charge often, you will see reduced supercharging. No real way around it.
If tesla offered battery replacement then maybe it might alleviate the problem a bit by allowing the full speed charging but battery life reduced. But if you can replace your battery pack at a reasonable price then you get your full capacity back when you deemed the cost is right and the range penalty of the old one is too much.
I think all in all this will be the fact going forward if you fast charge often, you will see reduced supercharging. No real way around it.
If tesla offered battery replacement then maybe it might alleviate the problem a bit by allowing the full speed charging but battery life reduced. But if you can replace your battery pack at a reasonable price then you get your full capacity back when you deemed the cost is right and the range penalty of the old one is too much.
I don’t think you can make that generalization as it depends on the battery cells. The Nissan Leaf, for example, charges closer to 2C and there haven’t been any reports of throttling AFAIK.
hill
high fiber member
speculate away, but many of the CHAdeMO around here are only 25kW & below. that's not much faster than a 240V dual charger model s.hardly a source of heat.
Is that what made them degrade so quickly?
Nissan Leaf 30-kwh battery decline 3 times that of earlier electric cars: study
I think one or two studies indicate that QC’ing the Leaf frequently is only causing the batteries to degrade slightly faster versus batteries that are only charged at ~6 KW. It’s more about the overall cell design and the long term exposure to high overall ambient temperatures.Is that what made them degrade so quickly?
Nissan Leaf 30-kwh battery decline 3 times that of earlier electric cars: study
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Chademo use has caused throttling issues and is well below 1C. Charge rate is also chemistry dependent so general statements may not be accurate.
Except the new 40 kWh Leafs, which throttle massively by the third or fourth DCFC of a trip apparently.
Is that what made them degrade so quickly?
Nissan Leaf 30-kwh battery decline 3 times that of earlier electric cars: study
Right, the capacity loss is largely due to the lack of thermal management in the Leaf. I was specifically referring to throttling. Don’t know much about the new 40 kWh packs.
The 90 packs will definitely throttle after a while. Few MWh of DCFC will tend to do it, it seems. It only seems to count if pack temp is above a certain amount though.
My Model 3 has hit 118kW at a supercharger, or about 1.6C... sustains it for a while, too, hitting around 500 MPH charge! Will see how this goes over time.
My Model 3 has hit 118kW at a supercharger, or about 1.6C... sustains it for a while, too, hitting around 500 MPH charge! Will see how this goes over time.
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