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If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

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Wow, lots of good reading here, and planning on reading through all 119 pages. On page 10 at the moment. Just wanted to add my data.

March 2018 MX 100D. I have 40,000+ miles. 90% highway (several trips between MA and FL, one from FL to OK and back, and one from FL to Sacramento, CA and back). I would guess 90-95% Supercharger. I remember hitting close to 120kw early on, and maybe as much as 135kw when they made some changes last year. I have noticed some superchargers are better than others, and of course temperature makes a difference, cold or hot.

Went to a supercharger yesterday in Florida, about 90 degrees outside. Started at 18% charge, and charge rate was 102kw and slowly climbed to 108kw (very slowly over the time it took to get to 50%) until I hit 50%, and then the curve started to drop quickly to 95, 90, 85, and I think around 83kw by the time I got to 60%. Total charge time was 24 minutes to go from 18% to 60%. Last week on my way from MA to FL, after driving 170 miles @ 80+mph going from 98% to 32% it then took me 29 minutes to go from 32% to 75%. Outside temp at 67 degrees and climate control was on the whole time. Charging started around 104kw, and I don't believe it ever went higher.

So I am not sure if I am throttled or not, but I will be keeping an eye on it more. I have a lot of data still to put in my spreadsheet for all of 2019 and 2020, but this year haven't really been making a note of the maximum charge rates. I do feel the calculations and "Time Remaining" is better now than it used to be.

I don't have a problem with 104-110 kw between 10-50%. Wish it were higher as I am sure it is increasing my overall travel time on my long trips, but I have always seen a drop well below the max when I am on the upper end of charge. I haven't seen 120kw since November last year on my trip to CA.

I only charge above 90% when I am getting ready to hit the road, and typically only when I want to save the amount of time I'll have to be at the next supercharger. On my trip to Sacramento (November) there was a couple of times I went as low as 9-10%, and once below 5%, but will definitely be avoiding that in the future. Currently when I am not on a road trip I top out at 60%.

Yes, I see that many of us have hijacked a Model S sub-thread, but really affects all models, at least the Model S and X. Still to be determined on the 3 and Y, but seems their different cells and pack configurations allow for higher rates which is good for them.

Yes, 100kw packs get throttled. I posted the above on Aug 22 while just starting to read this thread. Finally finished reading through all of it, and I have learned quite a bit. I have signed up with TeslaFi and Scan My Tesla. Looks like I am definitely throttled to the 108kw rate, although I haven't actually compared charge times yet. With my lack of trips over the past few months, I don't have many new charge stats. My next road trip isn't until mid-late Oct. I still don't have all of my data entered into my spreadsheet, but on my Orlando-LA-Sacramento trip I saw several SuC stops with 143-145kw charges although as many point out this is just for a few minutes, maybe 10-15% charge added before it started to taper, but did shorten the charge sessions by 10 minutes or so. I haven't figured out yet at what point and what software version I started getting throttled, but will eventually.
Here are my stats from Scan My Tesla:
Miles: 40,515
DC Charge Total: 14,407 kWh
AC Charge Total: 3,461 kWh
Regen Total: 2,491 kWh
Charge Total: 20,359 kWh
Discharge Total: 18,847 kWh
Discharge Cycles: 201
Charge cycles: 218

One of the posts was hypothesizing from his data that the throttle happens around 15,000 kWh of DC charging, but I hit it before that. I will be figuring out exactly when once I go through the rest of my data. I definitely believe it is not the number of DC charges, or DC to AC ratio, but a total amount of KwH of DC charging.

Now the other odd thing I saw. I was guessing that BMS max charge was the throttle limit, because the first few days I was looking that the data the BMS Max charge rate was 108KW, although a few days later in is now 115KW. It will be a few more days before I can visit a SuC to see if I get over the 108KW I got at my last two charges, but will let you know.

I am still reading through other posts on what all these values are, but can anyone verify that BMS Max Charge is the charge limit?
 
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Yes, I see that many of us have hijacked a Model S sub-thread, but really affects all models, at least the Model S and X. Still to be determined on the 3 and Y, but seems their different cells and pack configurations allow for higher rates which is good for them.

Yes, 100kw packs get throttled. I posted the above on Aug 22 while just starting to read this thread. Finally finished reading through all of it, and I have learned quite a bit. I have signed up with TeslaFi and Scan My Tesla. Looks like I am definitely throttled to the 108kw rate, although I haven't actually compared charge times yet. With my lack of trips over the past few months, I don't have many new charge stats. My next road trip isn't until mid-late Oct. I still don't have all of my data entered into my spreadsheet, but on my Orlando-LA-Sacramento trip I saw several SuC stops with 143-145kw charges although as many point out this is just for a few minutes, maybe 10-15% charge added before it started to taper, but did shorten the charge sessions by 10 minutes or so. I haven't figured out yet at what point and what software version I started getting throttled, but will eventually.
Here are my stats from Scan My Tesla:
Miles: 40,515
DC Charge Total: 14,407 kWh
AC Charge Total: 3,461 kWh
Regen Total: 2,491 kWh
Charge Total: 20,359 kWh
Discharge Total: 18,847 kWh
Discharge Cycles: 201
Charge cycles: 218

One of the posts was hypothesizing from his data that the throttle happens around 15,000 kWh of DC charging, but I hit it before that. I will be figuring out exactly when once I go through the rest of my data. I definitely believe it is not the number of DC charges, or DC to AC ratio, but a total amount of KwH of DC charging.

Now the other odd thing I saw. I was guessing that BMS max charge was the throttle limit, because the first few days I was looking that the data the BMS Max charge rate was 108KW, although a few days later in is now 115KW. It will be a few more days before I can visit a SuC to see if I get over the 108KW I got at my last two charges, but will let you know.

I am still reading through other posts on what all these values are, but can anyone verify that BMS Max Charge is the charge limit?
You can actually figure about how much of a time difference it makes. It's just math once you know the capacity and charge rates, after all.

Let's say that 10-40% goes at 135 kW, which is a typical observed rate if the ABRP blog data can be believed, and you're being throttled to 105 kW over the same period. Actual usable capacity is right around 98 kW on a fresh 100 pack. So you can compare the charge times: at 135 kW it would take 13 minutes to charge 10-40%. At 105 kW that same charge takes just under 17 minutes. So if the taper continues similarly past that point between your pack throttled and your pack not throttled, it should add about four minutes to a charging session.

ABRP data here: Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update

It will be nice once they have enough data for another update. You can actually see the likely throttled curve on the 90 pack data as a fat line which starts around 90 kW and joins with the higher power curve at around 50% SOC. That one adds something like 3.5 minutes to a session (12.6 minutes vs 16.2) when compared to the unthrottled curve. ABRP doesn't seem to have data on the new 90 charging rate though, as a recent update increased rates yet again and I've seen 135 kW on my car with a rev C 90 pack.
 
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Dear All,

I am located in Germany and I have a Model X 100D from September 2018. My use case is manly driving in Highway 90% so I am force to supercharging 90% of the time. After 2 years and 70.000 km I have seen my charging speed to drop dramatically of 35% from one day to another one. Up to End of August, connecting my car at the SuC with 20% of battery I was getting 145 kwp since 40% and after it was going down. From September on, I am limited to 105 kwp (even if I go to the SuC V3) and I spend now 20 minute more than before to charge from 20% to 90% at the SuC.
I have contacted Tesla in Frankfurt and I brought the car to the service and the answer was: "Your battery has reached the limit of DC charging and now is limited to max 105kwp at the DC SuC to protect the battery pack"

I was shocked really, because at the time I bought the car I was not informed about this potential limitation.

Could anybody let me know if what was told to me, it is really true?

Anybody has the same issue?

Best Regards
Stefano
 
I was shocked really, because at the time I bought the car I was not informed about this potential limitation.

Could anybody let me know if what was told to me, it is really true?

Anybody has the same issue?
No one was informed ahead of time about this. It's not something Tesla wants to talk about, and it wasn't something they originally planned on doing until some problems came up.

Yes, it is really true, and yes, many other people have had this happen. You found this thread and posted in it. That is the exact issue that this thread is about. Tesla themselves have confirmed it at several of the service centers. So far, it seems that this has only affected the battery packs of the Model S and Model X. The 3 and Y have different battery packs, and I don't think anyone has seen that happen in those types of cars yet, so they may avoid this.
 
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I was shocked really, because at the time I bought the car I was not informed about this potential limitation.

They have a note in their Supercharging FAQ:

Does Supercharging affect my battery?
The peak-charging rate of the battery may decrease slightly after a large number of high-rate charging sessions, such as those at Superchargers. To ensure maximum driving range and battery safety, the battery charge rate is decreased when the battery is too cold, when it is nearly full or when its condition changes with usage and age. These changes in the condition of the battery may increase total Supercharger time by a few minutes over time.

I'm not sure when it was added, but it seems like it has been there for more than 3 years. So it was there before you bought your car.
 
Dear All,

I am located in Germany and I have a Model X 100D from September 2018. My use case is manly driving in Highway 90% so I am force to supercharging 90% of the time. After 2 years and 70.000 km I have seen my charging speed to drop dramatically of 35% from one day to another one. Up to End of August, connecting my car at the SuC with 20% of battery I was getting 145 kwp since 40% and after it was going down. From September on, I am limited to 105 kwp (even if I go to the SuC V3) and I spend now 20 minute more than before to charge from 20% to 90% at the SuC.
I have contacted Tesla in Frankfurt and I brought the car to the service and the answer was: "Your battery has reached the limit of DC charging and now is limited to max 105kwp at the DC SuC to protect the battery pack"

I was shocked really, because at the time I bought the car I was not informed about this potential limitation.

Could anybody let me know if what was told to me, it is really true?

Anybody has the same issue?

Best Regards
Stefano
This issue is basically the crux of this entire thread. I've had the same experience with both of my Model Ses (see below in my signature for details). The first one topped out at 95kW and the current one tops out at 108kW. So unfortunately, I would say your experience is "normal" given your driving habits and the number of kilometers you have accumulated on primarily supercharging.
 
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They have a note in their Supercharging FAQ:



I'm not sure when it was added, but it seems like it has been there for more than 3 years. So it was there before you bought your car.
I take issue with the words "slightly" and "a few minutes."

"Slightly" is of course a subjective term, but "few" is generally defined as 3-7. Supercharging my car from 10-90% takes at least 10 minutes longer than it did prior to the throttling, probably more like 20 minutes longer.
 
I take issue with the words "slightly" and "a few minutes."

"Slightly" is of course a subjective term, but "few" is generally defined as 3-7. Supercharging my car from 10-90% takes at least 10 minutes longer than it did prior to the throttling, probably more like 20 minutes longer.
If we look at the ABRP data it looks like rates stay above 100kW for around 10-60% SoC on a 100 pack, and the peak rates higher than 120kW are only from 10-50%. To get 15 minutes added to a charge your peak rate would have to be limited to 100kW. If you're getting 20 minutes added I would expect your peak rate to be no higher than around 85kW. At 108kW you should be adding around 13 minutes to a charge if my rough math holds out.

I would like to see an update to ABRP data, but they haven't been updating the blog in a while. Since their last update I have actually been getting higher than their published rates on my 90 pack, and some folks here are reporting lower rates, so some things have certainly changed. It would be nice to know if they are algorithmic or if they are specific car problems.
 
No one was informed ahead of time about this. It's not something Tesla wants to talk about, and it wasn't something they originally planned on doing until some problems came up.

Yes, it is really true, and yes, many other people have had this happen. You found this thread and posted in it. That is the exact issue that this thread is about. Tesla themselves have confirmed it at several of the service centers. So far, it seems that this has only affected the battery packs of the Model S and Model X. The 3 and Y have different battery packs, and I don't think anyone has seen that happen in those types of cars yet, so they may avoid this.

This has been documented and confirmed by Tesla back in 2017.
Tesla explains why it limits Supercharging speed after high numbers of DC charges - Electrek

In a statement, Tesla explains that it is a software limitation to optimize for the best possible owner experience that’s within the limits of physics. Here’s the statement in full:

“The peak charging rate possible in a li-ion cell will slightly decline after a very large number of high-rate charging sessions. This is due to physical and chemical changes inside of the cells. Our fast-charge control technology is designed to keep the battery safe and to preserve the maximum amount of cell capacity (range capability) in all conditions. To maintain safety and retain maximum range, we need to slow down the charge rate when the cells are too cold, when the state of charge is nearly full, and also when the conditions of the cell change gradually with age and usage. This change due to age and usage may increase total Supercharge time by about 5 minutes and less than 1% of our customers experience this.

Tesla is not slowing down charge rates to discourage frequent Supercharging – quite the opposite. We encourage our customers to use the Supercharger network at their discretion and we committed to doubling the number of worldwide chargers just this year. We also want to ensure that our customers have the best experience at those Superchargers and preserve as much vehicle range as possible – even after frequent usage.”
 
Dear All,

I am located in Germany and I have a Model X 100D from September 2018. My use case is manly driving in Highway 90% so I am force to supercharging 90% of the time. After 2 years and 70.000 km I have seen my charging speed to drop dramatically of 35% from one day to another one. Up to End of August, connecting my car at the SuC with 20% of battery I was getting 145 kwp since 40% and after it was going down. From September on, I am limited to 105 kwp (even if I go to the SuC V3) and I spend now 20 minute more than before to charge from 20% to 90% at the SuC.
I have contacted Tesla in Frankfurt and I brought the car to the service and the answer was: "Your battery has reached the limit of DC charging and now is limited to max 105kwp at the DC SuC to protect the battery pack"

I was shocked really, because at the time I bought the car I was not informed about this potential limitation.

Could anybody let me know if what was told to me, it is really true?

Anybody has the same issue?

Best Regards
Stefano
Like others have said, tesla throttles you to protect their bottom line. Otherwise they will be replacing batteries quite often for those who uses the car like it was intended. My only hope is once tesla becomes long term sustainable, they will make it right and give those affected free or low cost battery replacement.
 
This has been documented and confirmed by Tesla back in 2017.
Tesla explains why it limits Supercharging speed after high numbers of DC charges - Electrek

In a statement, Tesla explains that it is a software limitation to optimize for the best possible owner experience that’s within the limits of physics. Here’s the statement in full:

“The peak charging rate possible in a li-ion cell will slightly decline after a very large number of high-rate charging sessions. This is due to physical and chemical changes inside of the cells. Our fast-charge control technology is designed to keep the battery safe and to preserve the maximum amount of cell capacity (range capability) in all conditions. To maintain safety and retain maximum range, we need to slow down the charge rate when the cells are too cold, when the state of charge is nearly full, and also when the conditions of the cell change gradually with age and usage. This change due to age and usage may increase total Supercharge time by about 5 minutes and less than 1% of our customers experience this.

Tesla is not slowing down charge rates to discourage frequent Supercharging – quite the opposite. We encourage our customers to use the Supercharger network at their discretion and we committed to doubling the number of worldwide chargers just this year. We also want to ensure that our customers have the best experience at those Superchargers and preserve as much vehicle range as possible – even after frequent usage.”
I think this statements need to be updated. I seriously doubt it is 5 minutes and less than 1% of their users now that more people are roadtripping and more have hit the supercharging limits.
 
If we look at the ABRP data it looks like rates stay above 100kW for around 10-60% SoC on a 100 pack, and the peak rates higher than 120kW are only from 10-50%. To get 15 minutes added to a charge your peak rate would have to be limited to 100kW. If you're getting 20 minutes added I would expect your peak rate to be no higher than around 85kW. At 108kW you should be adding around 13 minutes to a charge if my rough math holds out.

I would like to see an update to ABRP data, but they haven't been updating the blog in a while. Since their last update I have actually been getting higher than their published rates on my 90 pack, and some folks here are reporting lower rates, so some things have certainly changed. It would be nice to know if they are algorithmic or if they are specific car problems.
Yeah my guess was 10-20 minutes so 13 fits right in there. It’s definitely more than a “few” minutes.