I thought torque sleep happened in all circumstances, and Range Mode only changed the strategy at low speed to trade a bit of performance for slightly better efficiency. For sure I've tried it on a couple of steady state routes in mild weather and couldn't spot any difference of note in efficiency.
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Even that is an incredibly convoluted way of thinking about it. kWh/hr lol
The only thing I notice in range mode is that the car heats up more slowly. Never did seem to get any additional range out of it. We might have some sort of placebo effect in play here
We all understood what the doctor said.
But I agree, Rocky is right.
But I agree, Rocky is right.
I would say the battery also doesn't heat up as quickly. In really cold weather that could be a noticable range adder if you can't use shore power to do it.The only thing I notice in range mode is that the car heats up more slowly. Never did seem to get any additional range out of it. We might have some sort of placebo effect in play here
MarcG
Active Member
I work in solar energy and always thought kWh was a confusing metric for energy. I see people in the industry making a mess of the “hour” piece all the time.
If we all used kJ instead, it would make so much more sense!
(but seriously, 1 kJ/s is 1 kW. Think about that!)
If we all used kJ instead, it would make so much more sense!
(but seriously, 1 kJ/s is 1 kW. Think about that!)
Of course it's convoluted, but I laid it all out that way in that order on purpose to show how if you're going to talk about something "per hour", it works out to just be kilowatts.
doctorwho
Active Member
MikeBur
ManualPilot
I used to like discussing data gathered here...
given P85D, via TeslaFi logs, pretty much ISO everything pre throttle, 2017, relative to throttle, 2019.
pre throttle (late 2017)
During throttle: (late 2019)
Don’t have after latest update, though empirically > 20% longer for this comparison. ~8 minutes for this SoC range. Taper curve pre charges more power for longer.
anyone got taper curve graph for their vehicle pre, during, post?
given P85D, via TeslaFi logs, pretty much ISO everything pre throttle, 2017, relative to throttle, 2019.
pre throttle (late 2017)
During throttle: (late 2019)
Don’t have after latest update, though empirically > 20% longer for this comparison. ~8 minutes for this SoC range. Taper curve pre charges more power for longer.
anyone got taper curve graph for their vehicle pre, during, post?
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MikeBur
ManualPilot
Also, re range mode, I would be surprised if things changed significantly re regen and torque sleeping, particularly for older S perf vehicles due to preference of using more efficient front motor for cruising. More at Chassis CAN Logging To ASCII Text Plus Graphing
I see range mode steady state there showing 0% rear motor, which does make sense. Am I missing the non-range mode steady state graphs? Also my vehicle is not Perf so both motors should be similar efficiency, which might explain the lack of noticeable difference.
Yes, 100%. Because the battery warranty would cover the failure. Then it would be at least definitive failure too, since the service centers have now deemed that dicking around customers to make them "prove" the charge-gate/battery-gate/MCUv1 problem is really happening. Ugh, I get so fired up about this because ownership is certainly not what it once was. Tesla could have kept customers for life, instead, early adopters are going to get wooed by all the upstarts with promises of better experiences.
MikeBur
ManualPilot
There’s lots in that thread, though yes for perf cars they defaulted to rear motor in non-range mode.
Happy to report my previously throttled S100D is no longer limited to 108kW. This is with software version 2020.48.30. I posted details here:
Superchargers Visited
Superchargers Visited
I'm done with upstarts. I want a car exactly like my Tesla but made by a company that has already been punished for warranty shenanigans and safety violations so they don't try it again on my car. If Tesla changes I'll get another if they don't the old companies are releasing EVs better than my Tesla already.
Aggmeister2010
Active Member
My thoughts exactly. When everyone complains about how "other manufacturers are behind....."
True, comparatively, but I don't have to update the firmware on my Volvo every other week because the new chess game visuals crashes my HVAC. And when something's clearly wrong with it, I can take it in and get it reliably fixed with a smile, not yelled at over text about how "our engineering flaw isn't our problem/"
Aggmeister2010
Active Member
To expand on my last post - I feel like the reason most other manufacturers are behind is twofold:
1) There hasn't been a car company driven by software. Fair enough, that's going to drive a ton of change in the industry, and the big players are already responding. Look at all the crazy goodness that's coming in the Hummer EV, Mercedes's new screen, and even all the unique 'truck stuff' in the 2021 F150. Manufacturers are starting to take more leaps in trying new things.
2) (*this is the big one*) Traditional manufacturers don't rely on their customers to be their beta testers. I HAAAATE this about Tesla. Tesla is like Cyberpunk 2077. They roll out a half-baked feature and then refine it based on how it affects their userbase. That sucks. "Hey guys, look, your Model 3 can find you in a parking lot now! Oh, it also runs stop signs? Guess we didn't think of that!"
Most traditional manufacturers vet their new functionality better before releasing it. They're used to that, because they've never had OTA updating. So, if they have to do an update, they know it's a HUGE inconvenience to their buyers and a big strain on their dealer infrastructure. That means new innovations are delayed, but they are much more stable.
And again, even still there will be design flaws and whatnot.....but my old beater Tahoe hasn't required a single 'bug fix,' ever, in 25+ years. My S needs one every couple weeks. It's Tesla's lack of functional stability that irritates me. Don't do betas, do final, vetted releases. Good lord, can you imagine how horrible it would be if Tesla didn't have OTA updates? If I had to go to a service center every time they did a minor bug fix?
1) There hasn't been a car company driven by software. Fair enough, that's going to drive a ton of change in the industry, and the big players are already responding. Look at all the crazy goodness that's coming in the Hummer EV, Mercedes's new screen, and even all the unique 'truck stuff' in the 2021 F150. Manufacturers are starting to take more leaps in trying new things.
2) (*this is the big one*) Traditional manufacturers don't rely on their customers to be their beta testers. I HAAAATE this about Tesla. Tesla is like Cyberpunk 2077. They roll out a half-baked feature and then refine it based on how it affects their userbase. That sucks. "Hey guys, look, your Model 3 can find you in a parking lot now! Oh, it also runs stop signs? Guess we didn't think of that!"
Most traditional manufacturers vet their new functionality better before releasing it. They're used to that, because they've never had OTA updating. So, if they have to do an update, they know it's a HUGE inconvenience to their buyers and a big strain on their dealer infrastructure. That means new innovations are delayed, but they are much more stable.
And again, even still there will be design flaws and whatnot.....but my old beater Tahoe hasn't required a single 'bug fix,' ever, in 25+ years. My S needs one every couple weeks. It's Tesla's lack of functional stability that irritates me. Don't do betas, do final, vetted releases. Good lord, can you imagine how horrible it would be if Tesla didn't have OTA updates? If I had to go to a service center every time they did a minor bug fix?
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Maybe Tesla should offer a discount program to those who want one really badly and are willing to put up with the bugs. Their cars would be perpetually running beta test software versions while the "normal" fleet would only get stable releases.
Join our Beta test fleet, we'll give you 50% off a Model 3, but we can't guarantee your car will start every morning so you need backup transportation.
Join our Beta test fleet, we'll give you 50% off a Model 3, but we can't guarantee your car will start every morning so you need backup transportation.
Aggmeister2010
Active Member
That's the price of being at the forefront. When the features haven't been deployed before, who else to provide the feedback other than the customers?
Hold-mode is something that was never developed before, but is perfectly suited for EV's and I like it. If Tesla never released it, how would a customer know whether or not they like it? Same with Chill-mode, sentry-mode, camping-mode, and boombox. You can't be at the forefront of tech, if you want the comforts and stability of the appliance model.
As soon as the legacy automakers "catch up" with OTA, they too will be in a rush to break-n-fix quickly, because that's what competing with technology requires. Those who don't compete on tech, sell appliances (aka Toyota/Honda).
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