If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Do you have the link to the actual survey numbers? Otherwise from the link provided, I think you are also bias. The statement stated says nothing about the numbers, other than it was "higher." I would want to see the numbers broken out to be sure it is indeed really the majority. Otherwise, all I can conclude from the article is the fast charging network is why people like a certain brand. If this is the case, going forward, more people will want other brand because the charging network is getting better and better.

O btw, I have the opposite experience. I also had another EV on a lease, and from day one to return date 3 years later with 45K miles, no issues. My tesla had tons of issues mostly addressed before the warranty was out. Though there are now more problems in addition to the usual battery problem.

I doubt you'll get the actual data, but here's JD Power's direct interpretation of their data: 2021 U.S. Electric Vehicle Experience (EVX) Ownership Study

"The study finds that 95% of EV owners whose overall ownership satisfaction exceeds 900 points say they will purchase another EV. Nearly two-thirds (64%) of these owners say they “definitely will” repurchase the same brand. However, likelihood to repurchase the same brand lessens as satisfaction declines. Among owners whose satisfaction is between 600 and 750 points, 77% indicate they “definitely will” purchase another EV—although their likelihood of repurchasing the same brand is only 25%."

So basically, the higher the satisfaction score, the more likely the owner is to rebuy that brand. Seems rather obvious isn't it?

Then if you scroll down to near the bottom of the page, they have the average score for each model, with i-Pace and e-Tron ranking dead last. I suspect that podcast missed that the stat only applies to cars who scored below 750 in the owner satisfaction score.

Edits: Oops, mis-interpreted the JD Power results myself. Wish they would provide the actual data too!

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

O btw, I have the opposite experience. I also had another EV on a lease, and from day one to return date 3 years later with 45K miles, no issues. My tesla had tons of issues mostly addressed before the warranty was out. Though there are now more problems in addition to the usual battery problem.

So I wanted to address this separately. No issues doesn't make for a good service experience. That should be a no data experience. Bringing my leaf in to get my battery checked (required for warranty coverage) and knowing more than their repair tech shouldn't be the point of my taking my car in. Also, getting asked to perform unnecessary "service checks" isn't something that I should have to know to avoid, yet I do. And my door handle's plastic cover cracked off (doesn't prevent my door from being closed/opened though) AFTER my warranty expired (bumper-to-bumper warranty is only 36k miles). This happened with both my 2013 leaf AND my 2016 leaf! Sure it's nice to be able to get it fixed quickly, but why did it break so easily in the first place?!?!

I also had to schedule an appointment and drop my leaf off for a day so that they could "flash the firmware" on the BMS (because it incorrectly pre-degraded the battery capacity). Why do I need to schedule an appointment just to drop the car off for the day?! Because they only have one certified leaf tech.

And the reason why the leaf's so cheap: right now, I'm waiting for the battery bar to drop it's "4th bar" (out of 12, which represents a 58-60% degradation, NOT 70% as visual clues seem to indicate), because that's how Nissan "honors" their warranty. And when that 4th bar drops, I have to schedule an appointment with a Nissan dealership for them to open a case with Nissan to get the battery replaced. For which, they'll hold my car for about a week, while waiting for that replacement part. So no, the grass ain't greener on the other side.

Now Jaguar and Audi might treat their customers differently, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

So I wanted to address this separately. No issues doesn't make for a good service experience. That should be a no data experience. Bringing my leaf in to get my battery checked (required for warranty coverage) and knowing more than their repair tech shouldn't be the point of my taking my car in. Also, getting asked to perform unnecessary "service checks" isn't something that I should have to know to avoid, yet I do. And my door handle's plastic cover cracked off (doesn't prevent my door from being closed/opened though) AFTER my warranty expired (bumper-to-bumper warranty is only 36k miles). This happened with both my 2013 leaf AND my 2016 leaf! Sure it's nice to be able to get it fixed quickly, but why did it break so easily in the first place?!?!

I also had to schedule an appointment and drop my leaf off for a day so that they could "flash the firmware" on the BMS (because it incorrectly pre-degraded the battery capacity). Why do I need to schedule an appointment just to drop the car off for the day?! Because they only have one certified leaf tech.

And the reason why the leaf's so cheap: right now, I'm waiting for the battery bar to drop it's "4th bar" (out of 12, which represents a 58-60% degradation, NOT 70% as visual clues seem to indicate), because that's how Nissan "honors" their warranty. And when that 4th bar drops, I have to schedule an appointment with a Nissan dealership for them to open a case with Nissan to get the battery replaced. For which, they'll hold my car for about a week, while waiting for that replacement part. So no, the grass ain't greener on the other side.

Now Jaguar and Audi might treat their customers differently, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Sorry to hear about your leaf experience. Yeah I hear Leafs have a lot of issues due to their decision to not liquid cool/heat manage their batteries. A poor engineering design IMO.

For me I much rather have no problems and no service required than having many servicing required before and after warranty but excellent service. It is still time out of my day to call to schedule to drive there to drop off etc. Yes I can have tech come out, but if they can't fix it, it will still be a trip to the service center. The experience I was referring to is car issues not how good the service center is which this thread is about. Tesla vehicles have a lot of issues while the other EVs has little to none because IMO Tesla release beta product and fix afterwords using the cheapest method possible. While other EVs they quality control and test before selling so it just works as advertised and continue to work years after. Yes the LEAF is the exception here but that is why I dont recommend LEAF either. Haha

O btw, I'm not sure why you were up and arms on Nissan flashing the BMS to hide the battery issue, but not tesla for doing the same to those with 85Kwh after the fire or the 90Kwh guys for the slow charging. Seems to me thr only difference Nissan requires you to go to the service center to do it vs tesla just pushing it to you automatically unless you disable the LTE.

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla actually cancels your service appointments for battery checks now. They know what they did and they don't want you to know.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

O btw, I'm not sure why you were up and arms on Nissan flashing the BMS to hide the battery issue, but not tesla for doing the same to those with 85Kwh after the fire or the 90Kwh guys for the slow charging. Seems to me thr only difference Nissan requires you to go to the service center to do it vs tesla just pushing it to you automatically unless you disable the LTE.

Because flashing the BMS shouldn't require a whole day for some specialized tech to do. And they didn't flash the BMS to hide any battery issue. They flashed it, because the BMS had incorrectly reported the SOH of the cells - you know, a bug in their supposedly perfected code. It wasn't to protect against a potential fire.

Edit: I had forgotten that most people don't know about non-Tesla EV issues. The Leaf BMS was incorrectly reporting that the battery had degraded more than reality. So my leaf was allowed less actual range than what the batteries could support. The flash restored access to the locked away capacity. So Leaf owners had to go through a period where they were driving an EV (107-mile rated EPA range) with only 60-miles of usable range, only to get their BMS flashed to restore them back to 90+ miles of range to do the whole degradation dance over again until it really was 60-miles of range left before the Nissan warranty would kick in and get replaced with a good battery.

Now the Bolt, on the other hand, did require a BMS flash to prevent a fire. And if you didn't get the update (despite notices to take it to their service center) and your car caught fire, who would be liable for the damages? Current law might hold Chevy liable, but I could totally see them fighting to change that.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla vehicles have a lot of issues while the other EVs has little to none because IMO Tesla release beta product and fix afterwords using the cheapest method possible.

I think there are a number of people that would disagree with you:

This video explains how Audi treat their clients, Absolutely no support and no back up. This car should not have been released until they had tested it properly. Save your money don't purchase an Audi because when you get a problem, you're on your own.

 

[JRP3]

Yes, what Tesla has done is far from ideal but the idea that other OEM's haven't done similar things in the past or won't again in the future ignores their track record.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Yes, what Tesla has done is far from ideal but the idea that other OEM's haven't done similar things in the past or won't again in the future ignores their track record.

How many other car brands do you know of that don't have a customer-facing phone number for customer service? I'll wait.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

How many other car brands do you know of that don't have a customer-facing phone number for customer service? I'll wait.

?? Tesla has a reachable customer service number off of your main screen. And if your car screen is unreachable, you can also schedule an appointment using your Tesla app (the service center numbers are there). How are you unable to reach customer service?

 

[Ostrichsak]

?? Tesla has a reachable customer service number off of your main screen. And if your car screen is unreachable, you can also schedule an appointment using your Tesla app (the service center numbers are there). How are you unable to reach customer service?

What's Tesla's "Customer Service" support phone number. Post it here for the world to see.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

What's Tesla's "Customer Service" support phone number. Post it here for the world to see.

I don't get your thought process, but the buena park service center that I go to is: (714) 735-5696

You should find the one local to you through your car. Why would you need a national service number?

 

[Chaserr]

He's thinking of emergency roadside's #. They hang up on you if you call them for non emergency service. My local service center only has one operational phone number: sales. You can call them and ask for service but they will hang up. Sometimes you can leave a message, but it's been years since I had a call returned from any department except sales.

Because flashing the BMS shouldn't require a whole day for some specialized tech to do. And they didn't flash the BMS to hide any battery issue. They flashed it, because the BMS had incorrectly reported the SOH of the cells - you know, a bug in their supposedly perfected code. It wasn't to protect against a potential fire.

Edit: I had forgotten that most people don't know about non-Tesla EV issues. The Leaf BMS was incorrectly reporting that the battery had degraded more than reality. So my leaf was allowed less actual range than what the batteries could support. The flash restored access to the locked away capacity. So Leaf owners had to go through a period where they were driving an EV (107-mile rated EPA range) with only 60-miles of usable range, only to get their BMS flashed to restore them back to 90+ miles of range to do the whole degradation dance over again until it really was 60-miles of range left before the Nissan warranty would kick in and get replaced with a good battery.

Now the Bolt, on the other hand, did require a BMS flash to prevent a fire. And if you didn't get the update (despite notices to take it to their service center) and your car caught fire, who would be liable for the damages? Current law might hold Chevy liable, but I could totally see them fighting to change that.

The customer is responsible for any harm or damage caused by a fire if they ignore the recall and something happens. GM would only be responsible if they had secretly tried to hide the fire risk without reporting it and issuing a recall so every affected owner is contacted and informed by the government.

 

[Electroman]

My local service number goes to the main switch board that takes you through a maze of "Press 1 for this and Press 2 for that,.. ", and finally tells you to go use the App. There is NO option to reach a human. Their automated phone system is worse than Comcast. I got so frustrated once, I simply drove there which is only two miles away and spoke to someone in person, who was very super helpful.

 

[supratachophobia]

I'm done with upstarts. I want a car exactly like my Tesla but made by a company that has already been punished for warranty shenanigans and safety violations so they don't try it again on my car. If Tesla changes I'll get another if they don't the old companies are releasing EVs better than my Tesla already.

<long-range Lexus EV, crosses fingers>

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

My local service number goes to the main switch board that takes you through a maze of "Press 1 for this and Press 2 for that,.. ", and finally tells you to go use the App. There is NO option to reach a human. Their automated phone system is worse than Comcast. I got so frustrated once, I simply drove there which is only two miles away and spoke to someone in person, who was very super helpful.

I don't know how busy TX service centers are, but I've usually reached a live human being. But I find the app to be more convenient (don't have to wait on hold).

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Sorry to hear about your leaf experience. Yeah I hear Leafs have a lot of issues due to their decision to not liquid cool/heat manage their batteries. A poor engineering design IMO.

For me I much rather have no problems and no service required than having many servicing required before and after warranty but excellent service. It is still time out of my day to call to schedule to drive there to drop off etc. Yes I can have tech come out, but if they can't fix it, it will still be a trip to the service center. The experience I was referring to is car issues not how good the service center is which this thread is about. Tesla vehicles have a lot of issues while the other EVs has little to none because IMO Tesla release beta product and fix afterwords using the cheapest method possible. While other EVs they quality control and test before selling so it just works as advertised and continue to work years after. Yes the LEAF is the exception here but that is why I dont recommend LEAF either. Haha

O btw, I'm not sure why you were up and arms on Nissan flashing the BMS to hide the battery issue, but not tesla for doing the same to those with 85Kwh after the fire or the 90Kwh guys for the slow charging. Seems to me thr only difference Nissan requires you to go to the service center to do it vs tesla just pushing it to you automatically unless you disable the LTE.

Just to beat on this dead horse. The other automanufacturers are just at the beginning stages of their learnings. I would consider Hyundai to be amongst the earlier adopters of BEV's, yet this is a battery fire that happened AFTER a recall to fix their BMS: Now A Recalled Kona EV Has Caught Fire, And Hyundai Is Facing Questions

 

[Chaserr]

It's not unusual, unfortunately. Just look at how many fires Tesla has had after it announced it needed to perform a recall (but still hasn't). The good news for Hyundai owners is they will be made whole because the safety issue is under scrutiny rather than being actively concealed.

 

[BigNick]

Hyundai is having fire issues with their ICE cars as well.
Their cars in the 80s were a dumpster fire (I still vividly remember the Excel's gas pedal coming disconnected from the throttle cable when breathed on wrong.)
Their current issue is brake fluid leaking onto electronic bits causing electrical fires in their Santa Fe (I think that's the one) to the point where Hyundai is recommending parking them outdoors only.

I wouldn't be surprised if corners were cut engineering the Kona EV battery as it's most likely built to under-price the Bolt, Leaf and Model 3.

 

[Dublin 'Eer]

I finally received the 2020.48.37 update in my 2016 S-75 and supercharged for the first time this morning starting with a warm battery and 18% left. Before throttling, the peak charge was in the 97kW range, and after throttling, it would very briefly touch 82kW just below 50%. Today the car reached a peak charge rate of 108kW, so that’s quite a bit higher than when it was new. It tapered to the former max of 82kW at just before 50% and seemed to taper from there at the same rate as it had before the update. This is a significant improvement that will make long distance traveling much easier especially as more superchargers come online and the “splash and dash” method in the low end of the range can be used. As a heavy supercharger user, I’m very excited with this update.

 

[vanwho]

This thread is reeeeally long, is there consensus on what the thresholds are where speeds are capped and by how much? 4,000kWH DC, 5k, 10k?

I have a Dec 2014 P85D with 178k km, but amazingly only 3400kWH DC charging (out of 66k total - 42k AC and 20k regen) and still hit 130kw supercharging in ideal conditions under 10% SoC (for about 10 seconds and it tapers quickly).

Charging curve is the same terribly slow curve as everyone else (not counting the regained curve 75/90 folks got back with 2020.48.37)