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If you had a choice: Acceleration or Distance?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Garlan Garner, Jul 1, 2016.

?

Where might you want the focus of a battery enhancement directed?

  1. Acceleration

    37 vote(s)
    13.2%
  2. Distance

    244 vote(s)
    86.8%
  1. Luke42

    Luke42 Member

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    Ludicrous mode is an option, and one i plan to forgo.

    Seriously, any car that can take a 2nd generation Prius at a stoplight has more acceleration than I need. (We owned a 2nd generation Prius for 12 years.)

    I'm sure I'll enjoy the extra acceleration that the Model 3 provides now and then, but I don't need it and I don't plan to pay extra for more.
     
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  2. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    No, it's true that higher energy densities allow higher boxier vehicles to be electrified. The higher energy density is needed to get ranges equivalent to what the sleeker designs get today.

    The other sentence about adjusting the motors isn't really going to add a significant real world range and is therefore not worth doing. As previously stated you can accelerate more slowly whenever you want.
     
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  3. EaglesPDX

    EaglesPDX Member

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    It allows lower, wider, shorter, taller vehicles to be electrified. In other words it's meaningless to the point of which is preferable speed or range.
     
  4. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    The coefficient of drag on a vehicle has everything to do with range...
     
  5. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    I think that: 1) people will always want more; and 2) Elon will always want to show off -- by offering MORE.

    At some point, range will be so much higher on a fully electric car that even a Prius with a 25 gallon fuel reserve would trail behind by 50%.

    For me? Something between 2,500 and 6,000 miles range would probably be... enough. But Imagine a time when cars roll out of Fremont displaying a 60,000 mile available range.
     
  6. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Once again, that isn't how it works. You would also have a MAXIMUM speed of 60 MPH. And you can do that anyway. Just don't stomp on the GO Pedal. Apply acceleration as quickly or slowly as you like, don't exceed 60 MPH, and you will probably be able to travel 300 miles. If you want to drive 90+ MPH, up a 6% grade, through hub-deep snow, in sub-freezing temperatures, with a 60 MPH headwind for 300 miles, both ways...? You are out of luck without an incredibly higher capacity battery pack. You aren't going to magically 'get 30% more range' by varying the acceleration profile from sub-3 seconds to plus-8 seconds, without any other concessions.
     
  7. EaglesPDX

    EaglesPDX Member

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    But the issue raised and commented was about energy "density" not wind resistance.
     
  8. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Exacto-FRIGGIN-mundo!
     
  9. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Boxier vehicles by definition have a higher wind resistance... hence higher energy densities are needed to both keep the weight down and allow those types of vehicles the range today's vehicles have. Whether it's a semi-truck, pickup truck, or a big child molester van, everything will benefit from higher energy densities.
     
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  10. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Given the hypothetical choice: There is no spoon.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Am I the only person who automatically drives at least 20 MPH less than the posted limit during inclement weather? In my experience with snow, even doing 45 MPH on the highway was a lot faster than the people pulled over to the shoulder, or sitting in the ditch.
     
  12. ccutrer

    ccutrer Active Member

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    Depends on how inclement, but no. And typically I'm watching my mirrors (and reverse camera this upcoming winter!) for the idiots behind me that forget that the coefficient of friction is highly reduced in wet conditions. I've actually discussed with some friends that I wish Tesla had automatic emergency scoot-forward, to avoid getting rear-ended!
     
  13. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Heh. This is sort of a chicken and egg situation, only in a logarithmic matrix with several different degrees of chickens and levels of eggs. Sort of a multi-dimensions tug of war. From my point of view, Tesla Motors will completely resolve range issues by making battery technology less expensive and more energy dense, so that vehicles can weigh less. It is all part of the same equation, which also includes temperature controls, state of charge cycles, and shock resistance.
     
  14. EaglesPDX

    EaglesPDX Member

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    Amazing facts we learned in grade school...but again...nothing to do with the comment about higher energy density batteries increasing range which applies to all vehicles.

    in case of T3 and the desire for more range over greater acceleration one would have to assume the battery is constant so the greater range would come from smaller, more efficient motors and controls geared toward range that would not give as great an acceleration but would give greater range.
     
  15. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Interesting. People seem to complain about the current form of automatic scoot-forward, where the car on Autopilot seeks to 'close the gap' in traffic a bit more aggressively than they would prefer. It seems they would prefer there was an automatic back off instead -- so that the car slows in traffic at a quicker rate, thereby leaving a greater gap between your own vehicle and slower moving, or stopped, traffic ahead of you. In most situations, I rather agree with Enzo Ferrari, "What's behind you, doesn't matter."

    To me, inclement weather is anything without several miles of visibility and temperatures substantially over 75° Fahrenheit. To put it another way? Heavy fog, heavy rain, heavy sleet, hail, gusting winds, standing water, black ice, snowdrifts -- all of these pass for inclement weather in my mind. I learned that on most freeway interchanges and offramps, the yellow/amber warning signs for lower speeds can be ignored here in California -- unless it is raining. If the orange sign says '35', you can typically take the turn at 50 or more (without frightening the passengers TOO much). But in the rain, it is best to go ahead and throttle down to the 35 MPH recommendation. Driving across I-40 in Tennessee, I learned that regardless of conditions you should ALWAYS obey the warning signs. Their offramps are much shorter and steeper, so you can get into trouble REAL quick.
     
  16. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    One should slow down in snow but typically the savings in drag from slower speeds is more than made up for by the increased energy to push through snow. A lot depends on the amount and type of snow. Warm wet snow can be slick and heavy to push through. Very cold* dry snow often makes for decent traction IME. But there is no way I am going to take a 300+ mile road trip if roads are snow packed; I can wait for better weather.

    I mostly drive clear roads even in winter but temperatures around 20ºF (-7ºC) are common here and really increase energy usage due to increased drag, rolling resistance, heater use, and the like. And it gets worse with cold mornings below 0ºF (-18ºC). The coldest I can recall was about -22ºF (-30ºC), which is probably no big deal to someone in Minnesota, Canada, or Alaska.

    "Real world" range depends a lot on what sort of conditions one is assuming!


    * For me, "very cold" is when the snow is "squeaky cold" (about 9ºF or less). Walking on squeaky cold snow is one of life's joys! It also makes for good skiing.
     
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  17. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Banned

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    Sounds logical to me.
     
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  18. Automaton

    Automaton Member

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    Without both range and acceleration, I would not buy any car. If all I wanted was range, I would have bought a Volt since it has an ICE backup to cover long trips. Or the Bolt... I think that's the newest slow ugly American electric car with decent range? However, that thing is slower than snot. If all I wanted was speed, I did almost buy a Subaru WRX. The WRX gets terrible gas mileage though, and the sales guys don't allow WRX test drives, so I swore off the WRX. I have driven slow cars (7s+ 0-60mph) up until my current car because that's all I could afford. My current car does 0-60 in 4.9s, which is plenty fast for me and I wouldn't want to go noticeably slower than that. I'm hoping the dual motor Model3 can come close. It's not about racing or speeding. I typically cruise along with the flow of traffic around me. It's about maneuverability in respect to other cars when needed and a little bit of onramp fun here and there. If I theoretically had to sacrifice a little range (while still remaining comfortably usable) to get acceptable acceleration, I would be ok with that.
     
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  19. Jersey Shore Tom

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    That's one slow car! Sneeze Travels 100 mph
     
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  20. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Banned

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    That's disgusting. I'm glad my M3 is going to have the biohazard filter built in. :)
     
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