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If you supercharge everyday will that kill your battery faster ?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by tcrcnsx, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. tcrcnsx

    tcrcnsx Member

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    They build a sc near where I live
     
  2. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    All Tesla will say is that supercharging will not void the battery warranty. They make no claims either way about contributing to faster battery degradation. That being said, a lot of real world data on the forums here would suggest that there is little if any difference in battery degradation between those who supercharge a lot versus a little versus never.
     
  3. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    It depends. Are you able to install a 240V outlet at home? If the answer is yes, then supercharging every day or even several times per week at the supercharger near where you live will kill your battery much faster. If you live in an apartment or other situation where you can not reasonably charge at home, then no, supercharging will not hurt your battery.

    If you don't understand why I answered your question this way, please read any of the several recent threads on supercharging by locals.
     
  4. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Charge as much as you want, wherever you want, and don't worry about it. Where you live and what facilities you have is nobody's business here.
     
  5. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Wait wait, are we lying to new owners now in the hopes of forcing them to be considerate of local supercharging? You have to PM me before hand so I can be in on it for it to work.....
     
  6. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    Depends. Supercharging with the rates that happen when the battery is < 50% (rates over 1C) are more than likely not the best for the battery. This is certainly why Tesla side steps this question of if it hurts the battery with the "it won't void the warranty" answer instead of a direct "yes" or "no," most likely because the answer is yes.

    I think Tesla's thermal management system will do a decent job mitigating this by keeping the cells cooler, but it is still going to have some effect, for sure.

    Whether or not we know for sure supercharging causes accelerated degradation or not, we *do* know that home charging, even at 20kW with a HPWC, does not. Even 240V/80/~20kW is C/4 charge rate and is still easy on the cells.

    The best bet would be to just install and utilize home 240V charging.

    As for the supercharging locally all the time... unless you absolutely had to do this doing so is kind of a crappy move, IMO, and I would suggest against it regardless of degradation. But that's not what was asked...
     
  7. No2DinosaurFuel

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    Charge as often as you like. No degradation. Just practice common EV charging etiquette at at ALL EV charging stations regardless if it's supercharging stations or not.
     
  8. tcrcnsx

    tcrcnsx Member

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    i'm in rental and move a lot, so if there is a problem using the sc for daily use, then most likely i will cancel my model x order... I go to the local store and ask, and the people there are kinda dumb and can't give me a answer, they said it's ok.. I don't want to buy the car and have a problem after .
     
  9. Ugliest1

    Ugliest1 S85: "Sparky"

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    I would say, don't cancel the X. If/when you live somewhere with a dryer-type outlet or can finally install one, it's much easier to plug the car in and it's fully charged (i.e., to the limit you set, 80 or 90%) in the morning for you. While you are in a situation that makes it nearly impossible to do anything else, go ahead and use the supercharger.
     
  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    You're not going to have a problem, but you're also not likely to need to go to a supercharger daily for a car with >200 mile range, unless you do an extreme amount of daily driving.

    Some of the responses were trying to allude to the controversy about using a local supercharger for daily needs which you can read about in other threads. Charging at home from a 240V 50A outlet is by far the most convenient thing as you wake up with a full charge every morning. If you're living situation is such that you can't install a 50A outlet, then go ahead and use a nearby supercharger as often as you need to. You'll also be able to charge some at 120V at home if the rental has a garage. What the intent of Tesla was, and the vast majority of owners agree with, is owners who can charge at home should not be using a local supercharger routinely as their primary charging source just to save on their electric bill at home. That wasn't the intent of the superchargers which was to enable convenient long-distance travel. There are a few vocal owners or potential owners who disagree with that, and you'll probably hear from them after this post, but really most consider that abuse and Elon said at the recent shareholders meeting that Tesla was sending notes to a few owners reminding them of that. That situation doesn't apply to what you're describing if you can't install home charging though.
     
  11. gnxs

    gnxs Member

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    I think Elon would be mortified if he found out a potential Model X purchase went to another car company (especially if the purchase was an ICE vehicle) because of potential concerns about utilizing the SC Network.

    The SC Network is MEANT to enable long distance travel, but I suspect you should have no issues using it in whatever manner is most convenient to your driving needs.
     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but that's not true at all. Even home charging has degradation, and supercharging definitely results in quicker degradation than home charging. This is borne out in all battery models that higher c-rates result in quicker degradation all other things being equal. Like wk057 says, Tesla side-steps the question by saying it doesn't void the warranty, but the warranty doesn't cover degradation.

    The main question is how much degradation. It hasn't been so bad there are people complaining (like with the Leafs in hot climates), but so far we don't have enough data to tell how much exactly. I guess you can say it is "okay", but it's not true there is no extra degradation.
     
  13. Chipper

    Chipper Active Member

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    Chuckling out loud! If the car has been on the road for this long and we do not have enough data yet then I, personally, am not going to be concerned about this issue. Juss sayin'.
     
  14. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    To answer your original question:

    If you supercharge everyday will that kill your battery faster ?

    No, charging does not KILL the battery. Tesla covers the battery and a few other components of the drive train with an 8 year unlimited mileage warranty. So you need not worry about it.

    All kinds of charging result in degradation of the ability of the battery to store electricity. Personally I have gone better than 50,000 miles mostly (>50%) using superchargers and the degradation is about 5 % of the original capacity. YMMV. Nothing to worry about. Battery degradation tends to be greater at the beginning and then level off somewhat.

    I figure if the battery lasts at least the 8 years of the warranty, then by that time batteries will be cheap and plentiful in supply.

    My recommendation: Don't deprive yourself of the fun and bessings of driving a Tesla. Your worries are not substantiated.
     
  15. GasDoc

    GasDoc Member

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    If you supercharge every day, it's likely that you're just topping off.

    I don't know about what it'll do to your battery long term, but that sort of behavior will waste a lot of your time. The lower the charge state of the battery, the faster the supercharger adds electricity. If you're just topping off the upper portion of your battery charge, you'll spend a lot of time sitting at the supercharger.

    If I were an apartment dweller and with no options other than supercharging, I'd run my car down to 20% or so and charge it up to 60-70% and try to stay in the sweet spot of the charge vs. time graph.
     
  16. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    2-3 years is not a very long time for a car. And so far we don't really have the data collected in such a manner that it is easy to plot frequency of supercharger with degradation rate, and the sampling is so low (323) there is a lot of noise.
    http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/model-s/results.php

    A lot of batteries are still barely out of the first year period where the degradation is faster and hasn't stabilized yet.

    Once we reach the 10 year mark, with much more survey participants, we'll have a lot more data and be able to make a clear claim either way.
     
  17. tcrcnsx

    tcrcnsx Member

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    I need Tesla to be clear on 2 things before I make my decision, 1 will there be a problem if I supercharge twice a week or maybe 3 times. and battery what % will they repair or fix.. look at the people that paid 130k for a p85 and 2 years later selling it for 70k or less. and paying $600 service, which they do nothing. I have a leaf now, battery lost about 40% it cost $6k to replace, I bought the car 40k out the door and got 10k back, so spend $30k for the car, which there selling for 9k... Electric car is not really making any sense for me anymore.. If tesla can put in writing of those 2 things then I might give electric car another try. My brother has a model s and I had it for about 6 month and it was pretty nice, that why I made my reservation for the x.
     
  18. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    It is a fact the battery aging is faster when higher currents are used, both for charging and discharging. So yes, there will be a difference if you only supercharge vs only home charging. There is no doubt about it. Tesla's Supercharger is pretty conservative, though by adjusting down the power as the battery gets fuller. So the effect in reality is very small. Bottom line, yes it does make a difference in battery degradation, but it's so small that it's not really worth worrying about in real life. Personally I prefer the convenient way and charge at home. I can't see myself wasting 30 min at a Supercharger every day.
     
  19. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    You'll be waiting a long time.
     
  20. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    What used P85s sell for now has nothing to do with the battery. Look at what other high end cars with all the options sell for after 2 years. if you don't plan to trade in your Model X quickly to get the latest and greatest a year or two later, what it might sell for is irrelevant.
     

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