If you want AP/FSD covered by your insurance, purchase before delivery

[willow_hiller]

Just had an odd chat with our auto-insurance company about the value of over-the-air factory options. We're adding Autopilot now, a few months after delivery, and evidently they don't care the value of our vehicle is increasing by a few thousand dollars. The representative couldn't tell me whether the cost of AP or FSD would be covered in the event of a loss.

If we had configured our car with the software from the beginning, it would be treated like a factory option without question from insurers, but it seems like the entire automotive industry is woefully unprepared for how quickly Tesla is changing things... It makes me wary to ever add FSD for $6,000 without knowing whether it would factor into a loss-valuation.

 

[TomB985]

Interesting. Insurance law very state by state, but I’ve never heard of a situation where upgrades after-the-fact weren’t covered to some degree. Sales agents are not often claims experts, so you may have gotten incorrect information. I would call back and try to get further clarification, this just doesn’t seem correct to me.

 

[willow_hiller]

Interesting. Insurance law very state by state, but I’ve never heard of a situation where upgrades after-the-fact weren’t covered to some degree. Sales agents are not often claims experts, so you may have gotten incorrect information. I would call back and try to get further clarification, this just doesn’t seem correct to me.

He didn't seem very confident in his answers. The policy does come with up to $5,000 of "Custom Equipment" covered, but he couldn't tell me whether Autopilot would qualify as "equipment".

Found this in the policy's section about liability coverage, so it may not explicitly cover software in the car, but it's not comforting:

"For purposes of this policy, electronic data is not tangible property. Electronic data means information, facts or programs.

a. Stored as or on;
b. Created or used on; or
c. Transmitted to or from;

Computer software, including systems and applications software, hard or floppy disks, CD-ROMS, tapes, drives, cells, data processing devices or any other media which are used with electronically controlled equipment."

 

[OCR1]

Did they ask you what the purchase price was when you bound coverage? They did for me and we did include the cost of EAP at the time. But I suspect that in the event of a total loss you would have to negotiate the issue of the value of AP/EAP/FSD as part of your settlement. It’s a gray area for insurance companies since it’s such a new concept.

I also see this come up when used car companies like Carvana or Carmax get Model 3’s in for sale. They never even mention whether they include AP/EAP/FSD so you have no idea whether their ask price is competitive or not because you have no idea whether the car has any of those features paid for. I don’t think these companies understand any of those things and likely don’t price the cars correctly based on whether the features are included or not.

 

[Knightshade]

Did they ask you what the purchase price was when you bound coverage? They did for me and we did include the cost of EAP at the time. But I suspect that in the event of a total loss you would have to negotiate the issue of the value of AP/EAP/FSD as part of your settlement. It’s a gray area for insurance companies since it’s such a new concept..

The value would be the full price of the option would be my argument.

The cost to add FSD to a brand new tesla and a 2 year old used Tesla is exactly the same amount (this week anyway)- unlike the car itself it doesn't get cheaper/depreciate over time.

 

[dwalme]

In Michigan you only give the VIN number to the insurance company.

The VIN number does not decode the $10k bump for the performance package or the $5-6k increase for FSD. Those items would have to be covered to some degree if the vehicle were to be totaled.

But you raise an interesting question on what challenges an owner may face if their vehicle is totaled. It's never happened to me so I'm not familiar with the process the insurer goes through after the fact.

 

[OCR1]

The value would be the full price of the option would be my argument.

The cost to add FSD to a brand new tesla and a 2 year old used Tesla is exactly the same amount (this week anyway)- unlike the car itself it doesn't get cheaper/depreciate over time.

I would expect them to counter that FSD is an “option” and insurance doesn’t cover the replacement cost of an option, just the depreciated cost. Yes it’s software so it doesn’t “wear out” but it’s purpose is to enhance the experience of the car which does depreciate.

They will also look at the used market for Model 3’s with FSD (assuming they can find any) and base the settlement value on used market pricing. I would expect in a normal used market that a three year old model 3 with FSD will certainly sell for less than $6K more than a comparable FSD model without it.

 

[Jefla]

The value would be the full price of the option would be my argument.

The cost to add FSD to a brand new tesla and a 2 year old used Tesla is exactly the same amount (this week anyway)- unlike the car itself it doesn't get cheaper/depreciate over time.

What should be covered under custom equipment?

If you get PPF, Tint, Rims powder coated, do you add them as custom parts to cover?

 

[willow_hiller]

Did they ask you what the purchase price was when you bound coverage?

Come to think of it, no. They must have pulled a value from the VIN, which presumably doesn't include AP/FSD.

 

[OCR1]

Come to think of it, no. They must have pulled a value from the VIN, which presumably doesn't include AP/FSD.

Call him back and ask him to document on your account that your car comes with FSD, currently valued at $6K, and have them document the actual purchase price of the car. You will want that on record just in case you ever need it.

 

[Glamisduner]

Just had an odd chat with our auto-insurance company about the value of over-the-air factory options. We're adding Autopilot now, a few months after delivery, and evidently they don't care the value of our vehicle is increasing by a few thousand dollars. The representative couldn't tell me whether the cost of AP or FSD would be covered in the event of a loss.

If we had configured our car with the software from the beginning, it would be treated like a factory option without question from insurers, but it seems like the entire automotive industry is woefully unprepared for how quickly Tesla is changing things... It makes me wary to ever add FSD for $6,000 without knowing whether it would factor into a loss-valuation.

Or order it after delivery so you get a cheaper insurance rate?

 

[willow_hiller]

Call him back and ask him to document on your account that your car comes with FSD, currently valued at $6K, and have them document the actual purchase price of the car. You will want that on record just in case you ever need it.

The conclusion of the chat was that the best he could do was make a note on our account, which will definitely help in the event of a wreck. I just found it unsettling that the value of post-delivery options couldn't be guaranteed...

Or order it after delivery so you get a cheaper insurance rate?

It was weird, the first thing he said was that adding options after delivery would not affect our insurance rate positively or negatively.

 

[Glamisduner]

The conclusion of the chat was that the best he could do was make a note on our account, which will definitely help in the event of a wreck. I just found it unsettling that the value of post-delivery options couldn't be guaranteed...



It was weird, the first thing he said was that adding options after delivery would not affect our insurance rate positively or negatively.

I mean most companies ask the MSRP of the vehicle and base your rate on that. So if you purchase it later you would have insurance based on a cheaper vehicle. It's one thing I have to deal buying the car before the price drops. Sure I got more tax incentive, and a $5k refund but my insurance does not reflect this.

 

[Knightshade]

I mean most companies ask the MSRP of the vehicle and base your rate on that. So if you purchase it later you would have insurance based on a cheaper vehicle. It's one thing I have to deal buying the car before the price drops. Sure I got more tax incentive, and a $5k refund but my insurance does not reflect this.

FWIW I've insured a ton of cars and never, ever, been asked what I paid for the car by any insurance company I've used

 

[calidreamz808]

This would be a cute little court case i'd follow.

 

[Glamisduner]

FWIW I've insured a ton of cars and never, ever, been asked what I paid for the car by any insurance company I've used

I misspoke, they ask the purchase price not the MSRP.

 

[Knightshade]

I misspoke, they ask the purchase price not the MSRP.

Nope.

VIN.

That's all they've ever asked for across dozens of cars, half a dozen insurance companies, and multiple states (all on the east coast though so maybe this is Yet Another Thing That Is Different in California)

 

[Glamisduner]

Nope.

VIN.

That's all they've ever asked for across dozens of cars, half a dozen insurance companies, and multiple states (all on the east coast though so maybe this is Yet Another Thing That Is Different in California)

Could be, mine ask for yearly mileage too...

 

[RScottyL]

I misspoke, they ask the purchase price not the MSRP.

As other have mentioned, what car insurance company do you use?

I have never been asked the purchase price or MSRP of the vehicle.

They usually judge it by the VIN!

 

[Glamisduner]

As other have mentioned, what car insurance company do you use?

I have never been asked the purchase price or MSRP of the vehicle.

They usually judge it by the VIN!

Mid-century / Farmers