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IIHS Small Overlap Front Crash Test (2nd Attempt): Only Acceptable again.

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While I'm not trying to dismiss the IIHS testing methodology or results, nor am I defending Tesla's response to them, I do want to say that the real world crash examples have indicated time and time and time again that Tesla built cars are extremely safe and many people have walked away from accidents they may not have otherwise. Whether or not this matters to you over the results of a "independent" test, is entirely up to you.

As for me, I can say without question that I have never once had a concern for my, and my families, safety while in my Model S.

Jeff
From a scientific and engineering stand point, frontal crash test ratings are only comparable for vehicle within the same weight class (this fact is also clearly stated in both IIHS and NHTSA website). In other words, if a good frontal rating car that weigh 3300 Ibs crashes head-on with another good frontal rating car that weigh 4400 Ibs (like Tesla). The 3300 Ibs car frontal rating would drop from "good" to "poor" because the lighter car would decelerate much faster than the heavier car in the collision. (faster deceleration means more injury)

Another way to look at frontal crash rating is that the "good" ratings are valid ONLY if:
1. Your car get into a single-car accident. i.e. your car hits a tree or pole, no other cars are involved.
2. You car get into a multi-car accident, where the other car weigh about the same as your car, or it weigh less than your car.

If your car get into a multi-car accident, where the other car weigh more than your car. Then you can pretty much throw the frontal rating out of the window. It doesn't apply anymore. That's where the theoretical crash test results versus real world results argument comes in.

It is simple physics, a bigger/heavier car is always much safer than a smaller/lighter car in a crash. Despite Tesla having only "acceptable" in the small overlap frontal test (and frankly pathetic response by Tesla PR team), Tesla vehicles are still significantly safer than most cars in the market simple because of its weight advantage.
 
I think most people don't even know there are multiple crash test methodologies.
Haha, I think vast majority of the public don't even know what are IIHS and NHTSA. And probably half of the population don't even know what is a crash test, or even know that cars are being crash tested. Let alone details of crash methodologies. We all are living in our own bubble and think that everyone is engineering and technically-minded, while a lot of people out there ain't.
 
While I'm not trying to dismiss the IIHS testing methodology or results, nor am I defending Tesla's response to them, I do want to say that the real world crash examples have indicated time and time and time again that Tesla built cars are extremely safe and many people have walked away from accidents they may not have otherwise. Whether or not this matters to you over the results of a "independent" test, is entirely up to you.

As for me, I can say without question that I have never once had a concern for my, and my families, safety while in my Model S.

Jeff

I would tend to agree with you that a controlled test doesn't always equal real life performance. You know me well enough now to know that even though I would give this benefit of a doubt to a different car manufacturer, due to my negative opinion of Tesla I cannot offer them the same. In my book, I simply do not trust them anymore.
 
I know Tesla has improved the S a bit but Euroncaps 2014 results for Tesla...

tesla.PNG

Cheaper Kia EV
kia.PNG

ICE VW Arteon
vw.PNG


Of all the cars tested in 2014 by Euroncap Tesla was way down for the adult occupant results.
2014.PNG


Hopefully the X does better.
 
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If they could somehow get three more horizontal heavy studs integrated into the box structure near the wheel and wrap the bumper around the front of the box it would absorb much more energy. With the wrapped bumper the impact would have to tear the steel to make it fail. It looks like as it is now it's free to fold with only the axle structure as secondary protection.
 
Actual personal injury and medical payment IIHS stats for people inside a Model S are significantly better than peer competitors BMW 5-Series and Mercedes E-Class:

Insurance loss information

Categorized under large luxury cars.

Tests only show how a car performs in limited specific situations. Real world results do matter.

This data doesn't appear to be normalized for miles driven, which would drastically effect the results. So much so that I would say they are rather useless as a means of estimating crash safety. That would also explain why cars that are more likely to be second/weekend cars appear safer.
 
I think Tesla's seatbelt problem is a legacy problem from when Tesla didn't have enough clout to purchase first tier quality components. I think Tesla Model S's seatbelt is still second tier quality, and Tesla never revamped that portion of their design. This has always been a mistake, and Tesla got used to making this mistake like a familiar sore.

One of the first fatalities in a Tesla I believe was partially because of a combination of road diet construction and the cheap seat belt. Unlike seat belts found in Volvo and Mercedes, the Tesla Model S seat belt will tighten on you continually throughout your trip, eventually cutting off your circulation and ability to breath. Eventually you get both disoriented and exasperated, and must react by reaching around to take off the seatbelt. This act is both distracting and moves you around, and as you reach you depress your feet, usually the accelerator. It is often almost a minute long task to take it off and restretch the seatbelt to put it on. I believe this is what caused the fatal crash in Los Gatos: he was trying to deal with being asphyxiated to death by the cheap seat belt.

Tesla loves to deny fault, a behavior it shares with the prior US administration. We can assume their lack of admission is meaningless until we find proper evidence of our own.

The obvious solution is so obvious I shouldn't have to say it, but for absolute completeness, I will: get the same seat belts as Mercedes has, or Volvo, or one of the better ones at least. I don't know if asphyxiating seat belts are a new mandate by law, but my 1993 Volvo and 1998 & 2005 Mercedeses did not have them.

I learned from the Los Gatos accident to take the cheap seat belt problem seriously, and whenever my Tesla Model S seatbelt tightened on me, I pulled out of traffic while releasing the seatbelt. It's a dangerous maneuver, but anything having to do with that seat belt is. By getting out of traffic, I can park and put the seat belt back on.
 
Interesting observation, thanks for posting the video links. It looks like the car crumples until the barrier contacts the battery pack. At that point, there is a large deceleration and the vehicle pivots around the contact point.

Comparing the two videos, it seems like the 2017 seat belt is not working. Even if the pretensioner is weak, the belt should still lock when extended quickly. Instead, it seems to just extending with the dummy (0:37 shows belt pulled out).
This is consistent with a cheap seat belt: if it keeps asphyxiating customers, they weaken the seat belt to the point it's more of a show piece than a safety device, in order to not so obviously asphyxiate drivers. Of course, the right reaction is to fix the seatbelt by replacing it with a competent variety instead. Like I said, go to one from a proven luxury manufacturer. Competition means some corporate espionage or reverse engineering might be necessary. In fact, I'd bet on it. But since this is safety, the idea that death is a medium of competition in design through no other fact but availability and knowledge is too immoral in my view for something this major, but the car companies do that all the time and I have to go to work so I can't resolve this cleanly right now (maybe if I had a few hours to think about it).
 
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I think Tesla's seatbelt problem is a legacy problem from when Tesla didn't have enough clout to purchase first tier quality components. I think Tesla Model S's seatbelt is still second tier quality, and Tesla never revamped that portion of their design. This has always been a mistake, and Tesla got used to making this mistake like a familiar sore.

One of the first fatalities in a Tesla I believe was partially because of a combination of road diet construction and the cheap seat belt. Unlike seat belts found in Volvo and Mercedes, the Tesla Model S seat belt will tighten on you continually throughout your trip, eventually cutting off your circulation and ability to breath. Eventually you get both disoriented and exasperated, and must react by reaching around to take off the seatbelt. This act is both distracting and moves you around, and as you reach you depress your feet, usually the accelerator. It is often almost a minute long task to take it off and restretch the seatbelt to put it on. I believe this is what caused the fatal crash in Los Gatos: he was trying to deal with being asphyxiated to death by the cheap seat belt.

Tesla loves to deny fault, a behavior it shares with the prior US administration. We can assume their lack of admission is meaningless until we find proper evidence of our own.

The obvious solution is so obvious I shouldn't have to say it, but for absolute completeness, I will: get the same seat belts as Mercedes has, or Volvo, or one of the better ones at least. I don't know if asphyxiating seat belts are a new mandate by law, but my 1993 Volvo and 1998 & 2005 Mercedeses did not have them.

I learned from the Los Gatos accident to take the cheap seat belt problem seriously, and whenever my Tesla Model S seatbelt tightened on me, I pulled out of traffic while releasing the seatbelt. It's a dangerous maneuver, but anything having to do with that seat belt is. By getting out of traffic, I can park and put the seat belt back on.

I have had that problem with my passenger belt, but not my drivers one. Curious if you have ever taken the car in to service for that?
 
This is consistent with a cheap seat belt: if it keeps asphyxiating customers, they weaken the seat belt to the point it's more of a show piece than a safety device, in order to not so obviously asphyxiate drivers. Of course, the right reaction is to fix the seatbelt by replacing it with a competent variety instead. Like I said, go to one from a proven luxury manufacturer. Competition means some corporate espionage or reverse engineering might be necessary. In fact, I'd bet on it. But since this is safety, the idea that death is a medium of competition in design through no other fact but availability and knowledge is too immoral in my view for something this major, but the car companies do that all the time and I have to go to work so I can't resolve this cleanly right now (maybe if I had a few hours to think about it).
I have driven my two Model S for 70k miles and have never experienced this. Could it be in some cars only? Also had a Volvo and a Mercedes, didn't noice any difference in seat belts
 
You can look at 0:52 of this IIHS video for reference. A lot of car that got good rating for the small overlap test just do a slight extension/ reinforcement for a tiny portion of the bumper. There are usually other reinforcement made for structures in front of the A pillars as well. But you can see that some manufacturer just want to spend the least amount of money to pass the test, rather than doing a comprehensive reinforcement of the crash frame/structure.

Thanks for sharing the video. That they reinforce exactly and only where the specific test barrier will hit with no further consideration for real world crashes. That is sick!
 
This is consistent with a cheap seat belt: if it keeps asphyxiating customers, they weaken the seat belt to the point it's more of a show piece than a safety device, in order to not so obviously asphyxiate drivers. Of course, the right reaction is to fix the seatbelt by replacing it with a competent variety instead. Like I said, go to one from a proven luxury manufacturer. Competition means some corporate espionage or reverse engineering might be necessary. In fact, I'd bet on it. But since this is safety, the idea that death is a medium of competition in design through no other fact but availability and knowledge is too immoral in my view for something this major, but the car companies do that all the time and I have to go to work so I can't resolve this cleanly right now (maybe if I had a few hours to think about it).

Have you had this checked out by a service center? I had a similar issue with a vehicle, in that case the problem was the base unit was tipped which caused the weight used to sense an impact to trigger under gravity. Tesla may use centrifugal activation belts, but it still sounds abnormal.

In the case of the crash test, it appears to me that a ratcheting only belt would have done better.

General curiosity question: Do the front belts have the child seat ratchet-only mode when extended fully?
 
I have had that problem with my passenger belt, but not my drivers one. Curious if you have ever taken the car in to service for that?

Likewise. I have never had the driver's belt lock up unexpectedly or "continually tighten." I have had the right front passenger seatbelt lock up. It seems to happen when someone pulls the belt all the way out to buckle it (which is intended behavior), or when someone turns in the seat to speak to someone in the back, thus (apparently) extending it to the limit. I have had it checked at the Tesla service center twice, and was told it is operating correctly. First I have ever heard of seatbelts "suffocating" passengers....
 
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Likewise. I have never had the driver's belt lock up unexpectedly or "continually tighten." I have had the right front passenger seatbelt lock up. It seems to happen when someone pulls the belt all the way out to buckle it (which is intended behavior), or when someone turns in the seat to speak to someone in the back, thus (apparently) extending it to the limit. I have had it checked at the Tesla service center twice, and was told it is operating correctly. First I have ever heard of seatbelts "suffocating" passengers....
You haven't heard of the suffocation issue because the victims couldn't report it. They were of course dead.
 
Thanks for sharing the video. That they reinforce exactly and only where the specific test barrier will hit with no further consideration for real world crashes. That is sick!
Yes, most manufacturers would re-design the minimum to pass the test. At the same time, to be fair to both the car manufacturers and IIHS, if the test's overlap is 20% or 15%, rather than the current 25%, two vehicles hitting each other head on, or your own car hitting a tree would simply bounce off each other on the side. There wouldn't be much deceleration (thus injury) for occupants inside the car.
 
Likewise. I have never had the driver's belt lock up unexpectedly or "continually tighten." I have had the right front passenger seatbelt lock up. It seems to happen when someone pulls the belt all the way out to buckle it (which is intended behavior), or when someone turns in the seat to speak to someone in the back, thus (apparently) extending it to the limit. I have had it checked at the Tesla service center twice, and was told it is operating correctly. First I have ever heard of seatbelts "suffocating" passengers....

When I'm instructing drivers in OEM cars on a track, one of the first things they notice is how tight the seatbelt gets once you pass the G limit of the system. It is uncomfortable, but it is not going to injure you. When you strap into a true racecar, the belts are tightened until you have difficultly breathing, then you back it off a touch to have full lung capacity. But it is not loose.

For OEM, this insures that you are in the correct position for maximum protection by the other safety equipment such as airbags, crush zones, rollover, and secondary impacts with the car interior.
 
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