Forget what the car said, what paperwork did you have describing the car? Its becoiming increasingly well known that Tesla change the spec, its increasingly well known that the update can be late to be reflected in the car, its what the paperwork says describing the car that might give the clue to what you're getting. If you got nothing other than "Tesla Model S, sold as seen" then I can understand your frustration it was "seen with FSD", if the dsscription is "Tesla Model S, clean title. 34k miles, registered 5 March 2019, Midnight Silver, Black premium interior, sunroof, autopilot, etc..." then you're being told what your getting and with respect you'd need to understand that as a professional dealer, however frustrating tesla is.
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I'm a dealer and Tesla removed my car's FSD
- Thread starter Gu$ G
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DJVoorhees
Member
Tesla is a terribly dishonest company. The car has the option, it should stay with the car.
DJVoorhees
Member
Tesla is so scummy, terrible.
FSD Not Transferring to new Owner Class Action
There is an law firm in Michigan that is looking at the merits of a class action against Tesla for not disclosing that they will turn off FSD when the car is transferred to another owner outside of the Tesla infrastructure. My understanding is if you trade your Tesla in on a Cadillac, the poor...
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I would argue that only your last analogy is (somewhat) accurate. In removing the FSD software option, they're not "swapping out" wheels, tires, radios, etc.--they're removing an add-on option altogether.
I realize that Tesla does not have a lot of "factory options" on new vehicles, so I'll just use the first example that springs to mind: say the car had the rear spoiler when ordered new. That car was presented as such, and the OP relied on the "as-is" description & his inspection of the vehicle that it did, in fact, have the spoiler. The OP buys the car. Some time between the sale closing and the car being delivered, Tesla removes the spoiler. That's a major foul.
If Tesla wants to sell a car they own without a spoiler, they're perfectly free to remove that spoiler, then market the car "as-is" with no spoiler. That doesn't sound like what has happened here. I hope the OP gets satisfaction--ideally in a way to help Tesla realize the error of their ways.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The only difference I guess is in that analogy is that they are buying it from the auction house (subject to the terms and conditions of the auction house), not Tesla directly. It could be for example, Tesla telling the auction house they are selling the car without the spoiler (and will remove it when it successfully sells), the auction house selling the car "as-is" and Tesla then taking off the spoiler after the sale concludes.
FSD subscription is ALWAYS transferrable, unless Tesla owns the car. Much like the wheels analogy.
This one below worries me - what they are not saying and should be saying is "auctioned by Tesla" but instead they say "purchased through auction". I see absolutely no legal basis for an auction to remove FSD. If they truly mean "purchased through auction" then it's a big issue in my book.
That, and of course, the terrible Tesla execution. Once the car is out of their hands it should not change.
Tesla is so scummy, terrible.
FSD Not Transferring to new Owner Class Action
There is an law firm in Michigan that is looking at the merits of a class action against Tesla for not disclosing that they will turn off FSD when the car is transferred to another owner outside of the Tesla infrastructure. My understanding is if you trade your Tesla in on a Cadillac, the poor...teslamotorsclub.com
View attachment 676370
Tesomega
Member
What is the non-sense of subscription, it is option that was purchased by the owner of the car, period. There is no subscription for FSD.
Tesla removes FSD if the owner received it for free. There is the very rare case that someone gets it as compensation for some issue. Employees also get it for free, which is the much more common case, and AFAIK it is not on the Monroney. If this car came to auction from Tesla it might have been from an employee, and Tesla will absolutely remove the item that the owner never paid for. This is probably why this situation seems so common, but it's definitely not arbitrary. They are removing a feature they granted as a perk, not as something that was purchased for the vehicle. Their timing as to when they remove it is definitely a problem though.
Thats a new argument I've not seen mentioned before. I'm not sure where that one came from, I'd be interested in seeing the background (not to doubt you, just to understand it better), but either way it makes little difference to whats happening when it happens (ie somebody thinks the car has it but its taken away), just who's responsible.
Personally I still want a dealer who's had this happen share what the paperwork said at the auction and how the car is described. I'd be very surprised if it didn't mention FSD or not in the wording which should be the biggest clue
While this is just the first example Google handed me, it appears that this has been Tesla's policy for years. If someone doesn't pay for FSD for whatever reason, it is removed when the new owner registers the car with their new Tesla account. We do know that employees are eligible to receive free FSD when they purchase. To my knowledge, which could be misinformed or outdated, this happens after the car is delivered so the employee doesn't have to finance the extra $10k. Therefore, it's never a feature listed in the MVPA or Monroney, ie, legally doesn't belong to the car. Given that it's been almost 4 years of employees buying Model 3's, Tesla has 50k? employees, and there are new compelling replacements for these cars, we should expect to see a lot more of these cases pop up in the used market.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the article doesn't seem to support the argument as the headline is
Tesla reportedly removing paid-for features after used-car sales
and you're talking about features not paid for?This article/faq from a dedicated Tesla site doubts that this only occurs when the feature isn't paid for, it's purely to do with Tesla altering the spec as its economically makes more sense. Maybe it could be when people bought FSD cheaply as Tesla have done firesales before and its cost as little as $2k in the past, they just strip it off and want the full price, it could be for cars that don't have the FSD computer and its easier and cheaper to strip FSD than have to upgrade the hardware, whatever the motivation, I think its wider than just staff freebies that get it taken away.
Tesla Full Self Driving FAQ
Tesla Full Self Driving FAQ, we answer the repeatedly asked questions.
tesla-info.com
I bought a 2021 Model Y with Full Auto self Driving from a dealer that just got the car in trade.
I called the Tesla service line and talked to a very nice lady and asked her for help because I didn’t see the car in my application I downloaded and asked her about the parking feature. She asked me for the last 6 of the vin and my email address. She verified that yes, it did have the full auto pilot feature. I asked her how I would be able to get the car on my application to be able to use this feature. She told me I had to take ownership of the car and that I need to go to a computer and sign on to my account and add the car by adding a third-party ownership. I asked her to clarify that if I do this, I will not lose anything, and she said all the features of the car will transfer and reassured me that the full auto pilot will still be there. I asked her if she could please document this, and she said she would put in my record. She also let me know that this could take several days to complete.
I went inside and got on my computer and did exactly what she told me to do. It asked for pictures of the registration and my driver’s license. It looked like it transferred the car right away; I was shocked. I pulled up the Tesla app and the car was there. I was happy. went back to the car and the full auto pilot feature was gone.
I have been trying to work this out with Tesla for 17 days now and I'm just getting the run around.
I don't feel this is legal for Tesla to remove anything from my car they don't own the car.
Tesla is trying to make $40,000 per car if the car get sold 4 times in the cars life. I bought the car with this accessory like navigation and the manufacture has no right to remove it if they don't own the car.
I called the Tesla service line and talked to a very nice lady and asked her for help because I didn’t see the car in my application I downloaded and asked her about the parking feature. She asked me for the last 6 of the vin and my email address. She verified that yes, it did have the full auto pilot feature. I asked her how I would be able to get the car on my application to be able to use this feature. She told me I had to take ownership of the car and that I need to go to a computer and sign on to my account and add the car by adding a third-party ownership. I asked her to clarify that if I do this, I will not lose anything, and she said all the features of the car will transfer and reassured me that the full auto pilot will still be there. I asked her if she could please document this, and she said she would put in my record. She also let me know that this could take several days to complete.
I went inside and got on my computer and did exactly what she told me to do. It asked for pictures of the registration and my driver’s license. It looked like it transferred the car right away; I was shocked. I pulled up the Tesla app and the car was there. I was happy. went back to the car and the full auto pilot feature was gone.
I have been trying to work this out with Tesla for 17 days now and I'm just getting the run around.
I don't feel this is legal for Tesla to remove anything from my car they don't own the car.
Tesla is trying to make $40,000 per car if the car get sold 4 times in the cars life. I bought the car with this accessory like navigation and the manufacture has no right to remove it if they don't own the car.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The terminology you are using is confusing and non-standard. Did your Model Y have the $10k FSD option or Autopilot (which is included free in the car for 2021)? If you said "full auto pilot" the rep may have thought you were referring to AP (this gives you TACC and Autosteer, but not NOA).
If the dealer got it on a trade, Tesla does not remove FSD. The only exception is for employee owned cars that may have got it as a perk for employment or if original owner got it by mistake for free. If the dealer got it on an auction, Tesla does remove it as per terms of auction, given they owned the car and had the right to do so. I would ask the dealer if they have documentation what options the car came with. If the MVPA does not list FSD for $10k, it's not included.
There was also a 3 month trial of FSD at end of last year, but that should have expired long ago. The subscription just came out a few days ago, so it can't be that either.
Correct I bought a MX from a Jeep dealer and the Free supercharging, free Connectivity, and FSD all are included and transferred with no issues.
Telsa isn't just stripping FSD from the vehicles, you also have issues getting recalls done if the vehicle isn't from Tesla. They put our cars on hold for months. Forget getting a lien release if they didn't mark it satisfied on the title. That took me almost 8 months and at least a dozen phone calls. They make it very difficult if you are not a Telsa dealer that's why I do not get them selling their cars at auction. You need to also ask yourself why Tesla is auctioning off all their used vehicles when they have no vehicles on Tesla lots.
You have a basic misunderstanding of Tesla's business.
On getting things done by Tesla service, that can be variable for everyone. Spend a few mi s reading around the forum and you’ll cane across people waiting months for fixes so long as the car can be driven, six months for an MCU replacement is not uncommon when it’s starting to fail is not uncommon.
On your second part, Tesla have never really sold from lots. The used cars they sell aren’t lined up with prices in the windscreen. They’re small in number and usually just loan cars they cycle through the business. They’ve never looked to make money from their used car operations. Any preconceptions you have about how ca4 manufactures operate you need to forget when looking at Tesla.
No significant updates from the one I passed 6 months ago. Manheim denied my arbitration and the local Tesla SC wouldn't help either. As far as I'm concerned, the FSD is gone.
I think this post clearly demonstrates the confusion and lack of trust Tesla has developed because of this issue. Its just another in their long history.
To those asking about "what did the paperwork say" I'll try to answer that one again. First, it did not explicitly say FSD was included. Similar to a CARFAX report, the sales report populates lots of features that are automatically and manually selectable. FSD is not one of those. A seller could offer the car with an additional remark but that was not done in this case. So I do not have paperwork that proves the car had FSD when offered for sale.
I should also add that I agree with @brkaus regarding removing the FSD feature if a vehicle is "sold at auction." That very much should read "sold by Tesla." I also do not agree with that policy and question its legality. I think the FSD feature should be removed immediately PRIOR to being "sold by Tesla." As an example, they would not advertise a used vehicle on their website as "FSD included," deliver it to the customer, and then remove the feature. That would be absurd, but it is akin to what is happening here. Just because you write in your policy that you will remove it if the vehicle is "sold by Tesla" does not give the right to include it while advertising the car.
I still don't agree with what Tesla is doing here. I think its both unethical and would not hold up in court. But I'm not interested in challenging it at this time. Buyers like @Akgross look like other victims that are less informed and are actually paying premiums expecting FSD to transfer.
I think this post clearly demonstrates the confusion and lack of trust Tesla has developed because of this issue. Its just another in their long history.
To those asking about "what did the paperwork say" I'll try to answer that one again. First, it did not explicitly say FSD was included. Similar to a CARFAX report, the sales report populates lots of features that are automatically and manually selectable. FSD is not one of those. A seller could offer the car with an additional remark but that was not done in this case. So I do not have paperwork that proves the car had FSD when offered for sale.
I should also add that I agree with @brkaus regarding removing the FSD feature if a vehicle is "sold at auction." That very much should read "sold by Tesla." I also do not agree with that policy and question its legality. I think the FSD feature should be removed immediately PRIOR to being "sold by Tesla." As an example, they would not advertise a used vehicle on their website as "FSD included," deliver it to the customer, and then remove the feature. That would be absurd, but it is akin to what is happening here. Just because you write in your policy that you will remove it if the vehicle is "sold by Tesla" does not give the right to include it while advertising the car.
I still don't agree with what Tesla is doing here. I think its both unethical and would not hold up in court. But I'm not interested in challenging it at this time. Buyers like @Akgross look like other victims that are less informed and are actually paying premiums expecting FSD to transfer.
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