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I'm from Sydney, thinking of buying it in ACT to save on stamp duty + CTP

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by omniwolf, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

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    Hi all,

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
    I'm sure I can find a friend willing to lend me their address in ACT, and then I can buy the car in ACT and save about $6k in stamp duty and CTP, as the ACT is better in this regards for environmentally friendly vehicles.

    I'm assuming the charger will be delivered to the ACT address, which shouldn't be a problem.. i can just pick it up and bring it back to Sydney. Or.. can i organise for it to be delivered directly to Sydney?

    I've noticed when i click the order button and i'm on the order page where it wants my name, etc. It wants me to put in a registration address. Does that need to be the ACT address?


    I know i'll have to transfer the car to NSW plates within a year? but I understand that'll cost less than $1000, so it'll still be cheaper.

    Can anyone see a fault with my plan?

    Thanks!
    Nick.
     
  2. ZTrekus

    ZTrekus Member

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    #2 ZTrekus, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
    The law in the ACT requires that you assure them that the car will be ordinarily garaged in the ACT. I think they require a stat dec and or rate notices or services notices etc...

    Tesla is not the problem, they will let you pick up the charger in California if you wish.

    If you use a friend to exploit a loophole to essentially mislead the ACT people into registering you in the ACT you are committing an offence and a high paying Tesla will attract too much unwanted attention to you also. So the safest thing is to just ante up the NSW tax. Some would say if you can't afford that, then you shouldn't purchase the car. The real problem of course is that NSW unlike the ACT do not appreciate electric cars. Maybe that will change in the future but te NSW Tesla owners have in the meantime paid through the nose...


    i can see how the Tesla website makes people want to try that stunt.


    P.s. i recall a humorous thread on this forum where people contemplated renting premises in the ACT and then telling the rego people that a hundred of us or so in this unit all purchased Teslas etc...
     
  3. raynewman

    raynewman Member

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    Back before I received mine, I corresponded with the ACT people regarding this and they replied:

    Thank you for your email

    The process to establish registration in the ACT is below

    To establish the registration of any motor vehicle or trailer that is not exempt from registration, the customer must provide the following documents:

    *Proof of Identity
    *Proof of Acquisition
    *Proof of Garage Address
    *for some vehicles, customers must provide evidence that they are using it for a purpose that entitles them to an exemption or concession
    *if the vehicle is converted to gas - a gas certificate completed by a Licensed Gas Fitter. A gas certificate is not required for establishment of registration of a new vehicle, provided the vehicle has an LPG Compliance plate fitted.

    I would recommend you come to Dickson Shopfront with the above as there is no TAN for these vehicles and it is a green vehicle and therefore does not pay stamp duty.
     
  4. paulp

    paulp Member

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    What you are suggesting is called tax avoidance, which is a criminal offence. You likely wouldn't get jail time....but depends how the judge feels I guess.
     
  5. wpapua

    wpapua Member

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    Not worth it omniwolf ! A false Stat Dec would not be taken lightly, imho. It hurts, but suggest you cough up the tax like the rest of us, and enjoy the new Electric Wheels, without looking over your shoulder !
     
  6. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    Dear Omniwolf,
    Based on what you have posted it appears to me that you do not a have a legitimate case to claim that your car will be garaged in the ACT. As a result making a false declaration that your car is normally garaged in the ACT is fraud. As a private individual I would council against this in the strongest terms. If you were to act on your thoughts and be caught by the authorities you would be surprised at the leval of trouble you would be in, it would not simply be a fine and may result in a criminal record.
    As the moderator for this section I have to decide if I should take any action, but as I can see this is just a thought experiment I won't be taking any action in this case.
    I just hope we can all be considerate when posting in this forum that we do not encourage others to consider anything immoral or illegal as I don't really want to be come the thought police.
     
  7. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

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    Neutral Bay, Sydney
    Hi everyone,

    Thanks for the input, I suppose i considered it at worst a victimless crime, at best something not even worth mentioning - the ACT people would get my money and not have to deal with my car on their roads, the NSW people would get my money (in the transfer of plates, etc), win win! :) I can see your points, however, and hadn't considered it in this light. Appreciate your honesty!


    Dear meloccom,

    Indeed, this was merely a hypothetical scenario; I have not entered into any contract with the people of ACT, NSW, Tesla, or even my wife. As this thread was simply a question, and not a statement of action or definite intent of action, I would be most disappointed if you "took action", or even closed this thread. Everyone around here is a pretty friendly and helpful bunch of people, i don't think threats are really in the spirit of this forum in the case of this harmless question (especially considering the answers given - what an upstanding bunch!). Of course, I am just a lowly "junior member" and you may do as you please. Have a good day! :)
     
  8. paulp

    paulp Member

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    In a free and democratic Australia you have the right to ask any question you wan't without punishment. Doing such is not illegal and should never be stopped. If you act on that thought...well that's a different thing altogether.
    Also the victim is the state of nsw who ends up taking less tax for it's citizens?
     
  9. ZTrekus

    ZTrekus Member

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    #9 ZTrekus, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
    That is actually a novel concept.

    If you were to ask, "What is the best way to kill the King?" it would surely be treasonous...

    The lawyer who asks a witness in Court, "Aren't you really a murderer and a rapist?" without any reasonable admissible evidentiary basis would be guilty of professional misconduct.

    A boss who asks an employee, "Isn't it about time we stopped mucking about and joined the horizontal jogging club?" would surely be guilty of sexual harassment.

    The prisoner who asks the warden for a shovel in order to start tunnelling his way to freedom is probably putting his upcoming recreation time in jeopardy.

    One could go on.

    The law has always limited one's right to ask questions. Rather, it is a philosophical environment (not a legal one) where one is more free to pose hypotheticals. Sometimes known as "armchair philosophers" or "armchair generals". So long as the chair has a place to rest the arms, it usually signifies that you are not prepared to, well, to take them up!

    You wouldn't walk up to a cop and ask, "What would be the best time for me to knock your block off?" But I guess an armchair philosopher could speculate that dawn has always traditionally been the best time for a dual.

    And I suppose the more the questions are practical and less hypothetical the more the armchair needs to resemble a throne. Not because monarchs are more concerned with practical matters. More because monarchs have armies that can intervene when practical questions are objected to.

    ---
     
  10. paulp

    paulp Member

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    Fair point ZTrekus. It probably matters how you ask the question, where, and when.
     
  11. houdini

    houdini Member

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    Sort of back on topic (and not in the form of a question): as a former resident of Canberra I can share this. I lost count of how many people I saw, knew, experienced, perhaps partook of ;), that would have an ACT registered car and live in Queanbeyan or vice versa. Canberra and Queanbeyan are practically joined and lots of people live in Queanbeyan and work in Canberra, some the opposite. We all knew that if you moved between you supposedly had to transfer your rego within 12 months but knowing you might move back why would take on that hassle and fee $. You pay to transfer, pay for new plates and then 2 years later move back across the border and pay $500 again! I don't think so. So it's pretty standard and expected behaviour in the old Berra to just keep it as is if you can and with lots of family and friends who can provide an address its quite easy, that and so many people had a PO box in the ACT and would just have that as their mailing address for the rego label. I suspect there's a bit of this going on in Albury Wodonga and other towns on the Qld NSW border.
    Not advocating or promoting anything, just stating what sometimes happens.
     
  12. ZTrekus

    ZTrekus Member

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    I don't think rego requires that you live in the State. Only that the car is ordinarily garaged there. That could probably be met if one works in the State. (Not an expert here though)

    --------

    A friend of mine once told me of a particular street that lies along the boarder of NSW and Qld. One side of the street is NSW, the other side is Qld.

    Thus, one side:
    was in a different time zone
    had different number plates
    was subject to water restrictions and charged differently even though both sides of the street actually drew water from the same reservoir.

    Each side would call different police and were subject to different State laws.
     
  13. Trav

    Trav Member

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    I think the question raised is exactly the type of question these forums were created to help answers. I also think that our moderators threat to take "action" is silly and over the top.
     
  14. ZTrekus

    ZTrekus Member

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    It is a little unfortunate that the Tesla webpage allows one to compare stamp duty, LCT etc... between States. That information is not really helpful to the average Joe Blow looking to buy a Tesla and only encourages people to do silly things.

    Moderators will moderate - which I suppose means avoiding the extremes. A moderate tone can allow legitimate discussion. Moderators should ensure that the forum doesn't become extreme and that is good. I think our good moderator has done only that. Everyone undertakes not to give offence and not to take offence.

    And so as Sir William Gilbert says:

    "I am right and you are right and all is right as right can be" - The Mikado.

    Or as St Augustine says, "Everything in moderation".
     
  15. raynewman

    raynewman Member

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    or as Lazarus Long said "moderation is for monks".
     
  16. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    The (unpaid) job of the Moderator is to ensure that discussion remains within the rules of this forum.
    1. This website is hosted in the USA and this is the most likely the legal jurisdiction. Simply because there is a separate section for discussion of Australian and New Zealand issues is irrelevant.
    2. This Forum has written rules under the Site Feedback section but here is a link anyway. Forum Rules The relevant section in this case is titled " Be ethical ". All forum members should make themselves familiar with all the Forum rules.
    3. Actions available to the section Moderator include, negative reputation points and after repeated breaches recommending to the senior moderator for the member to be temporarily or permanently banned.
     

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