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I'm just going to post a Tesla tweet here: TeslaMotors Tesla Motors Bucking Trends

Discussion in 'News' started by zack, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. zack

    zack Member

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    TeslaMotors Tesla Motors
    Bucking Trends, #Tesla Goes It Alone on Plug Design ow.ly/7b1bI (via @nytimes)

    Bucking Trends, Tesla Goes It Alone on Plug Design - NYTimes.com

    Can we talk? Seriously. We're on the fulcrum of electric conversion. Is it in Tesla's best interest to buck trends the first year of introduction? Or does Elon plan to simply... pwn?
     
  2. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    I do believe this is a significant mistake. I have had my Roadster now for 7 months and 5,500 miles and have NEVER seen a Tesla plug or charger. I purchased the J-1772 adapter and have used it FREQUENTLY.
     
  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    isn't the S supposed to come with that adapter?
     
  4. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    I think that this is foolish. J1772 supports up to 70 A even though few of them are. I don't think that the small player will end up winning an infrastructure race but they can cut themselves off because everyone will get tired of carrying around adapters.
     
  5. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    As discussions among Leaf owners have shown, Level 2 outside of home/work/hotel doesn't do that much, and that applies even (much) more to longer range EVs like Tesla's which are most likely to cover daily driving routines with home charging only. For other trips, DC fast charging will be significantly more important. Tesla is making the best EVs in each class it makes EVs, and now also has the best charging system in terms of ease of use, which is critical for mainstream acceptance. That's the system I'll want to use in the future. However Tesla will have to install a sufficient coverage of "Superchargers", DC fast chargers, but currently the "standard" to meet, for that, is pretty low. ;)
     
  6. jaanton

    jaanton Roadster NA #1026

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    The present Leaf is crippled with just a 3.3 kW charger. That's about 16A @ 208v. Only about twice what a household outlet can deliver. Using the Leaf as an example is doomed. Getting the full 30A@ 240v from one of the many J1772's around isn't too bad, but not great. I had used several different public Tesla chargers until they were converted. If I had a couple hours they work ok.
    Tesla may be right in that so many are so wrong about weak chargers and that DC chargers have been so expensive to install. Maybe Tesla can produce better chargers. It seems to me that the DC charger installation cost is the killer. If Tesla can design a compact DC charger that may go a long way to show that it can be done and done well.
     
  7. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    My parking garage at the office has free J-1772 chargers, so I'm currently not planning on installing charging capabilities at my town house, less than 3 miles away. (My seaside house, 180 miles away, will have a charger of course!) It surely would be nice to have the J-1772 capability on the Model S as a "native" plug, rather than relying on expensive adapters.
     
  8. Ardie

    Ardie Member

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    I really can't speak for what did Tesla know, and when did they know it regarding charging standards.

    What I believe happened was that at the point in time when Tesla had to come up with a charging connection configuration, there was no established standard, and the ones that were proposed were in flux. So they came up with their own. One that is easy and safe to use.

    Standards change.
    I grew up in a house with 2-prong electric outlets. Then there was a third prong for a ground wire. Now, there are GFCI outlets that blow the instant it senses my daughter turning on her hair dryer.

    Hey, not even the revered gasoline filler neck / cap on our venerable automobiles have stayed the same for 50 years, so it isn't a stretch of the gray matter to consider a change in charging connection configurations sometime in the future.

    So, sometime in the dim future, when Tesla Roadsters and Model S cars are old, they may need an adapter.
    So what? Is that so horrible that we must beat Tesla about the virtual head and shoulders that they haven't picked <insert favorite connection standard here> connector?


    -- Ardie
    Adapt and survive
     
  9. zack

    zack Member

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    Wouldn't there have been room for two connectors? Designed with a mechanical interlock so that if one was in use, the other one was covered up, so no weird mistakes could be made?
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    It would have been cool if they could have fit a J1772 plug in the right taillight.
     
  11. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    Hi Robert,

    Perhaps you know this, but if you don't purchase the optional second on-board charger there is no advantage to installing a Tesla High Power Connector. A NEMA 14-50 outlet will charge just as fast.

    Larry
     
  12. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Why expensive? The description in gleaned was a 1/2 soda can size. It might be included...
     
  13. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    @Larry: Yes, but even getting any sort of power down to my parking spot in the city will be a non-trivial exercise. But, yes, if I do anything, it will be a straight 220v NEMA.

    @vfx: I had gathered from the Roadster crew that any adapter from Tesla carried a silly premium price. If they can deliver an adapter for a reasonable cost (<$200), then maybe this isn't such a problem.
     
  14. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    Hi Robert,

    I was referring to your remarks about installing a "charger" at your seaside house. It won't be of any benefit to you if you don't elect to go with the 20 kW on-board charger.

    Larry
     
  15. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Should be very possible since everything for the Model S will be produced in much larger volumes (and not only for the S but also for other upcoming 2nd and 3rd gen. platform inhabitants)
     
  16. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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    The J1772 adapter for the Roadster is crazy expensive because the Roadster socket end is crazy expensive - low volume, machined metal. With their own factory, I don't think any Model S adapter will be that much.
     
  17. shark2k

    shark2k Member

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    Also, the fact that it's supposed to be an adapter and not a cable like the Roadster's, wouldn't that make it less expensive? Or does that not really matter in the big picture of it?

    -Shark2k
     
  18. Warrenbonz

    Warrenbonz Member

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    I seem to remember Elon saying in an interview that the adaptor will come included with the car.
     
  19. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    My understanding was that the charging cable was included, but not the J-1772 adapter.
     
  20. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    The Model S feature page says "Model S comes standard with everything you need to plug into the most common 240-volt outlet, standard 120-volt wall outlets and public stations.".

    My *guess* is that would include the UMC with NEMA 14-50 and 110V adapter, plus the J1772 adapter, but that might not even be firmly decided yet. Don't remember any more specific quotes, please link if you have any.
     

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