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I'm starting to think the X still isn't ready...
- Thread starter Fiver
- Start date
That's quite a quote:
"We probably should have just [modified the Model S]," he added. "There are so many more features and difficult to build parts on [the Model X] than it is necessary for us to sell the cars."
Maybe he gets it now? Tesla needs to stop spending money on engineering fancy new stuff -- I know it's fun for the engineers, but they need to do useful work for their money. Start spending money on Service Centers instead, and on training service center staff. And on making all the existing features work right (nav comes to mind). And on providing retrofits for people with the defective features (like the bad interior temperature sensor design where it didn't sense the temperature). And, of course, on production line simplification and cost reduction. Don't "reskin" the UI for fun -- that's not worth a single hour of paid engineering time. Spend your paid time on the boring stuff which gives *quality*.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I have little doubt that the Model X project spiraled out of control with regards to niche features and other stuff. It seems like the car became the engineering playground for everyone, resulting in massive delays and other absurdities. It really did concern me when Elon stated elsewhere that Model X was one of the most difficult cars in the world to build, because an advantage of EVs is that they are supposed to be easier to build than other cars. Absolutely absurd that the company would deliberately make more unnecessary problems for itself.
What's done is done, though. With any luck real "mass production" will happen soon.
Hopefully this is not a mistake that Tesla will make again, especially with Model 3. I do think they "get it"... I believe the last investor's conference call Elon stated that the Model 3 sedan would not be an "adventurous" car like Model X. If Model X is half the PITA that I think it is, nobody at the company will want to repeat this experience again anytime soon.
Nigel Tufnel
Member
I like the fact that Elon is admitting that maybe he doesn't always get it right. Most (all?) car companies only admit errors when they get caught red-handed...such as the VW situation.
I wonder if he'll ever add: "...and by the way, we lied through our teeth about the 691 hp claim, here's how we're going to compensate the affected parties..."
I wonder if he'll ever add: "...and by the way, we lied through our teeth about the 691 hp claim, here's how we're going to compensate the affected parties..."
I totally agree, especially as regards investing more service center infrastructure. Other than the giga factory, presently I think the service centers are TM's biggest challenge and weak link. They have huge consumer satisfaction ratings now and great brand image, all of which is in danger if they do not grow the service centers with the increased number of Teslas on the road. I also wonder with all the over engineering in the Model X, how reliable of a car it will be ...
jeffhre
Member
100% agree with you. it's rushed. they needed to get at least 1 car out the door before end of quarter to meet their goal or face dire circumstances (major stock loss). its obvious many things are left unfinished. they'll be prototype parts used. this is the "sig tax" all over again.
I think that the (unplanned) complexity of the X might actually help the 3. We can only hope that lessons were learned from the whole experience. I mean as it was mentioned above, originally the X was supposed to be a jacked up version of the S, sharing a lot of common parts. What we got in the end clearly departed from this early goal. The "final" product wound up being almost too difficult to manufacture, and kind of still is too difficult, as they aren't producing them yet.
I can only hope that this process sticks in the engineers minds when designing the 3.
"Hey we could add this for little cost and make it really cool!" This comment will hopefully met with "Is it necessary?" I'm all for neat cars, but it's not just making them, it's servicing them as well. It doesn't matter how easily they can make the 3, if the service centers can't repair them (and they will need to) in a reasonable amount of time customers are going to be pissed. You need a greatly expanded service center network, and as rock solid of a car as you can possibly make. These two things need to go hand in hand.
I hope this thinking is going into the 3 design. A solid, not overly flashy car that fits what we should expect from a $35,000 vehicle.
Yes, yes, yes... I really hope they learned their lesson and are essentially just "going to modify Model S" in a way. I dont expect the same body style (although I would love it if that were the case) but if all they did was redesign it a little bit and shrink everything 20%... well, I'm sold. I dont need any new, flashy, cool design elements or components.
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MrBoylan
Member
I agree. The Model 3 will be a mini S and the Model Y will be a mini X (with only two rows of seating, but with Falcon Wing Doors). I don't mean they will look exactly like shrunken versions of their big brothers, but logically I think we can think of them that way. R&D of how to build an electric car and an electric SUV has now been (mostly) sunk. They know how to do the hardest stuff already: intelligently controlled battery packs with low degradation, touchscreen-driven UI, dual motor drive, Falcon Wing Doors, NAV with super-charger routing, auto-pilot (getting there), etc. Now they'll just have to make them a bit smaller and less full-featured in order to hit a lower price point.
A big part of the cost of the S and X is the R&D it took to get there. Making a smaller motor, smaller car, smaller battery pack (with more efficient batteries) should be so much easier (and cheaper) than than it was to actually invent all of these things in the first place. The real engineering challenge for the Models 3 and Y will be accomplishing the same effect with less expensive materials or even more efficient production processes. The gigafactory will certainly help with that, and Musk has already shown what they can do at SpaceX when it comes to lowering costs.
-CB
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
From everything I've read, the "sig tax" is lower this time though, at least in terms of quality.
Generally, the first-look articles from the automotive press, and comments from people here who attended the Model X event, were positive on the fit and finish and overall quality of the vehicles. I can't remember exactly who wrote it, but there was a post on TMC stating that the difference between the Model S Sigs and Model X Sigs was night and day.
But remember, these aren't sigs. These are founders series. When Tesla scales up to produce sigs, we'll see.
Remember the video that came out just before C&D named Model S "Car of the Year"? One of the panelists made the point that it's the body and interior that's hardest to put into production, not the chassis and drivetrain. He was very impressed that Tesla pulled it off. I think it's clear that most of Tesla's headaches getting the X to the finish line have had to do with the coachwork, including the big windscreen and especially the Falcon Wing doors.
He was one who "took delivery" on the reveal night, VIN #3. For whatever reason he didn't drive it home immediately.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
MrBoylan
Member
Also, even if he had the time for a cross country drive, he probably didn't want to pay California use tax and Florida sales tax on the same car. I pretty much gave up hope of CA pick-up and drive back to NY when I heard about that.
That makes sense, I didn't realize he lives in Florida. The California plates threw me off and the scenery looks similar.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what "ready" for production means. Could it use improvements? Of course. But doesn't that apply to every vehicle and probably moreso for every non-Tesla vehicle?
To answer the question I would pose this question: If I had one of the founder X vehicles would I think it's not "ready" for others, if it rolled off the line just like mine? I highly doubt it.
To answer the question I would pose this question: If I had one of the founder X vehicles would I think it's not "ready" for others, if it rolled off the line just like mine? I highly doubt it.
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