I'm taking delivery on a model 3 tomorrow. Worried!

[Nick79]

I am scheduled to take delivery of a Model 3 tomorrow. I'm getting cold feet. I'm worried about quality, reliability and depreciation. I have done research for almost 2 years but I don't know if the model 3 will be as reliable as I hope. I've always had a Toyota/Lexus with no major issues. I put almost 30k miles a year on my cars. Everything makes sense to me IF Tesla's are reliable. Worried

 

[lee619]

If your worried about quality, reliability, and depreciation, this isnt the car for you. Tesla is trying to do something no other car can do, which is push it to its limit in making the fastest most reliable car yet. But this doesnt mean they are there yet with the reliability as a car company thats been around for over 50 years. Your getting a Tesla for the wrong reasons if thats what you expect. If your expectation is that you getting a car that NO OTHER CAR can do in terms of efficiency, speed, safety, and autopilot then you are getting the right car. If your expectations are that you want a car that doesnt have any quality issues (that all new car models have) and just needs to take you from Point A to Point B, then you need to find something else.

If you still decide to go with a Tesla, temper your expectations. Yes, there might be small quality control issues, but it will be an amazing drive. Just dont expect a fresh out of the lot perfect car that will be in pristine condition in every facet of the car (hell, it actually might be). You expectations should be: you are getting a future-proof car that no other car company can offer, you are helping save the planet in a effort to reduce green house emissions, you are getting a BAD ASS car, and Tesla will do everything possible to fix any problems you have with it.

 

[Nick79]

If your worried about quality, reliability, and depreciation, this isnt the car for you. Tesla is trying to do something no other car can do, which is push it to its limit in making the fastest most reliable car yet. But this doesnt mean they are there yet with the reliability as a car company thats been around for over 50 years. Your getting a Tesla for the wrong reasons if thats what you expect. If your expectation is that you getting a car that NO OTHER CAR can do in terms of efficiency, speed, safety, and autopilot then you are getting the right car. If your expectations are that you want a car that doesnt have any quality issues (that all new car models have) and just needs to take you from Point A to Point B, then you need to find something else.

If you still decide to go with a Tesla, temper your expectations. Yes, there might be small quality control issues, but it will be any amazing drive. Just dont expect a fresh out of the lot perfect car, please.

If your worried about quality, reliability, and depreciation, this isnt the car for you. Tesla is trying to do something no other car can do, which is push it to its limit in making the fastest most reliable car yet. But this doesnt mean they are there yet with the reliability as a car company thats been around for over 50 years. Your getting a Tesla for the wrong reasons if thats what you expect. If your expectation is that you getting a car that NO OTHER CAR can do in terms of efficiency, speed, safety, and autopilot then you are getting the right car. If your expectations are that you want a car that doesnt have any quality issues (that all new car models have) and just needs to take you from Point A to Point B, then you need to find something else.

If you still decide to go with a Tesla, temper your expectations. Yes, there might be small quality control issues, but it will be any amazing drive. Just dont expect a fresh out of the lot perfect car, please.

I am being mindful of Tesla's vision and the benefits, but at the end of the day I need to afford the payment and repairs. If it costs me thousands after 50k miles Tesla makes no sense.

 

[designgauge]

Picked up my Model 3 Performance just over two months ago and am still thrilled with the car. Mine had no defects that I could detect, other than maybe one weird paint spot. You see those model Xs with doors that don't line up and irregular panel gaps but mine had none of those - I think they've got their production process pretty fine tuned.

It's great car - from inside the look, controls and operation feels like you're part of the future. It might not make complete financial sense over an economical gas car, but life is all about the experiences, and this one of the really great, exciting driving experiences that's available today.

 

[Nick79]

I bet the performance model 3 is a blast. I know I'll love the car. I'm not worried about minor cosmetic issues, I'm worried about major issues and repairs.

 

[outie]

Then don’t take delivery. It’ll make your life much easier. Just move on with another Toyota/Lexus you won’t be disappointed. Hopefully you have a less difficult time elsewhere in life being paranoid about uncertainties.

 

[Nick79]

You're probably right, I know I can get 200k out of a Lexus. I don't know what I can get with a Tesla. It's reasonable to be worried.

 

[NickFie]

You may have some rough edges on delivery. Tesla has not manufactured as many vehicles in the same configuration for as many years as Toyota. Tesla delivery problems will be resolved.

Model 3 is Tesla's 3rd generation BEV. Hundreds of thousands of Tesla vehicles have accumulated 100s of millions of miles in diverse conditions. Therefore, most problems unique to that drivetrain have already surfaced and been resolved. More on this below. Tesla has already shown a Model 3 drive unit with the equivalent of 1 million miles usage. Competitive analysis shows that Tesla battery design and management provide extraordinary reliability, efficiency and longevity. Ongoing updates allow Tesla to distribute any improvements in those systems to all operating vehicles.

Many Tesla vehicle components are provided by the same vendors that supply other manufacturers. Wouldn't expect much difference in reliability between Tesla and any other manufacturer.

For those reasons, I would be far more concerned about reliability and longevity for BEVs from other manufacturers with far fewer years and millions of miles.

BEVs have far fewer systems and moving parts than ICE. Also, electric drivetrain does not have to cope with thousands of explosions per minute producing burning-hot combustion products to handle. This makes it easier for Tesla to have high reliability.

Most new-to-Model 3 problems should have surfaced by now, some cars have been on the road for a year. Tesla will repair/replace these under warranty. By the time warranty expires, there will be few additional problems. Your car will be delivered with improvements based on experience with the over 100,000 Model 3s that preceded it.

My data points:

A. 2017 Model S 100D purchased Nov 2017. Demo/loaner with 1,100 miles sold as new car with discount. 15,000 miles now. Service required:
- Replace two tires & one wheel damaged during evasive maneuver.
- Scheduled one-year service.
- Replace one tire with puncture close to sidewall.
- White interior. Frequently have 1, 2 or 3 grandchildren in back seat. Brush out crumbs, wipe upholstery with damp cloth to remove any food stains.

Will schedule Ranger visit - driver's outside mirror doesn't fully extend in very cold weather. Likely needs cleaning or lubrication.

B. 2018 Model P3D- (Performance without the enhanced suspension, brakes, wheels/tires). Purchased mid-Sept 2018, 1,670 miles. At Devon Service Center now to address body panel alignment from end-of-quarter delivery rush. Also investigate two error messages that appeared and then cleared.

C. Good friend whose first Model S serial number was below 10,000. Motor was replaced twice on his car, under warranty, as design or production problems surfaced. After that he drove his car in northern New England for years, and well over 100,000 miles with few problems. The car was declared total loss after collision with a speeder. My friend still wishes he could have repaired the car, it was so reliable. Now driving CPO S 85D. Shows how Tesla climbs the learning curve and brings owners along.

D. S 85 loaner. It has over 57,000 miles and is rock-solid. May drive it Philadelphia-Cleveland-Philadelphia this weekend if Devon Service Center hasn't finished with my wife's car.

 

[LoveEV]

Don't worry about something that hasn't happened yet you will be fine. Service can sort out any issues.

 

[Venomized]

I’m kind of doing the same except I’m debating whether I should back out from my P3D order and get a 2016 P90DL.

 

[cwerdna]

Competitive analysis shows that Tesla battery design and management provide extraordinary reliability,

Source? I've not seen any evidence of this.

Many Tesla vehicle components are provided by the same vendors that supply other manufacturers. Wouldn't expect much difference in reliability between Tesla and any other manufacturer.

Sourcing of components is VERY different depending on the automaker. Look under the hood of a Toyota and you'll see many components from Denso (Toyota owns ~24% of them: State of Shareholders | Investors | DENSO Global Website) and Aisin for transmissions (Toyota owns about 24% of them as well: Stock Information & Ratings | Aisin Seiki Global Website), for instance. For a Nissan, you'll find many from Calsonic (Nissan used to own a ~41% of them) and transmissions from Jatco (Nissan owns 75% of the company: https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/company/profile.html). Stereos in Toyota tend to be from Fujitsu Ten (aka Eclipse). Stereos in Nissans tend to be from Clarion.

European cars will tend to have more components and subsystems supplied by European suppliers (e.g. Bosch, Forward-Looking Products for Engines, Transmissions, and Chassis Systems (has brands like INA, FAG and LuK), Valeo, Continental, ZF, etc.)

Take a look at Suppliers to the 2018 Tesla Model 3 vs say Suppliers to the 2012 Toyota Camry vs Suppliers to the 2017 Chevrolet Cruze. There are PDFs on those pages you can d/l for better readability. Google for suppliers to (insert name of automobile here) then click on Images for other examples of these. Take a look at Suppliers to the BMW 3 and 4 Series.

I can't speak to 3, but the earlier Model S had a bunch of parts from the Mercedes parts catalog.

For example, some guy posted some whacko info that I refuted at A/C Compressor finally failed. But $3400??!. The Model S AC compressor came from HVCC/Hanon Systems of South Korea. Toyota's AC compressors tend to come from Denso.

Tesla is currently near the bottom of the pack, so there is a difference. See chart at Tesla slips several spots in Consumer Reports reliability ranking. I am however surprised the 3 attained an average reliability rating.

Model X achieved 2nd from bottom of 10 Least Reliable Cars. The previous year X was dead last (10 Least Reliable Cars). The year before that, X was middle of bottom 10 (10 Least Reliable Cars). Model X 1st deliveries were at end of Sep 2015.

For those reasons, I would be far more concerned about reliability and longevity for BEVs from other manufacturers with far fewer years and millions of miles.

BEVs have far fewer systems and moving parts than ICE. Also, electric drivetrain does not have to cope with thousands of explosions per minute producing burning-hot combustion products to handle. This makes it easier for Tesla to have high reliability.

Yet these guys went thru at least 7 drive units on their S.

Drive Unit Replacement Poll
6th drive unit replacement and more
Drive Unit Replacement Poll

And the DU replacement rate from the survey finished sometime in 2015 was terrible: Two Thirds of Early Model S Drivetrains May Fail By 60,000miles

I've been on active on MyNissanLeaf since mid-2011 and I can't think of single case of a motor replacement for failure. The Leaf's been shipping since Dec 2010. There have been extremely rare cases of a Leaf motor replaced for noise but have been FAR rarer than what see on TMC for DU replacements on any Model S or 3.

I don't have much time to frequent TMC and sometimes take a hiatus, but every now and then when I note a 3 DU replacement, I bookmark it. Here are the ones I know of (hope I didn't include dupes):
Tesla Model 3 Down: Won't Power Up, and is Inaccessible
Rear motor disabled
Delivery Problems
My So my M3 broke down 2 days after delivery
Model 3: Breakdowns
1 Week into Model 3 ownership and had to get Towed
I miss my car.
Poor communication and customer service for delivery
86% of June Model 3s "reworked"
Delivery Dramas
My drive unit failed, pyro fuse blew, both brake calipers were replaced and boy do I LOVE this car!
Rear Drive Unit Failed During Pre-Delivery Inspection
Car shutting down - PULL OVER SAFELY on the freeway 3 days after delivery
Tesla Model 3 Drive System Validated after 1 Million Miles of Testing
One day old Model 3 "PULL OVER SAFELY
One day old Model 3 "PULL OVER SAFELY

I'm sure there are more.

By the time warranty expires, there will be few additional problems.

You cannot know this at this point. Get back to me once we have Model 3's years or 10s of thousands of miles past warranty expiration. Did people who bought a Model S long ago know they'd develop problems w/their LCD or MCU? How about the door handles or half shafts (Clunking sound is costing me a bundle to fix out of warranty).

Pmacafee at Model S Not Ready For Commercial Use Prime Time. Can I afford to own this car? and $2700 to fix MCU. Might DIY, but how much to reprogram new unit? has had some pricey out of warranty issues developed on the S in question.

There's a strong financial incentive for automakers to keep their warranty repair costs low and not as strong of one once warranties have expired.

You listed your Model S data points. FWIW, Model S has had on/off at least average and below average reliability. It's fallen off recommended again due to below average reliability: 12 Models Lose CR Recommendation Over Car Reliability Issues.

 

[LoveEV]

P3D order and get a 2016 P90DL

They are totally different cars personally I would get the p90dl

 

[Mark Z]

Six years ago this week I took delivery of a Model S Signature P85. I still own the vehicle and reliability has been excellent. Most important is how Tesla repaired and improved the vehicle through the years. It has been a remarkable car and it gave me the confidence to purchase a Model X and a second Model S. The vehicles were built well. Any later issues were addressed completely by Tesla. I did learn that it is best to not expect perfection of some parts during the first several hundred vehicles of a model run. However, getting a few new replacement parts made the Tesla better than ever. A new windshield was especially appreciated.

While I don't need a Model 3 currently, I look forward to consider Model 3 or Model Y in future years. Test driving a Model 3 rear wheel drive and Performance Model 3 all wheel drive was very enjoyable. I love the design and would not hesitate a moment if I was taking delivery.

 

[HopeToGolf]

I bet the performance model 3 is a blast. I know I'll love the car. I'm not worried about minor cosmetic issues, I'm worried about major issues and repairs.

I think you are gambling and have a right to be worried.

You are buying a first year model car, essentially, from a young car maker. You should not expect anywhere near Toyota/Lexus quality (check Consumer Reports) but you could get it. If you need such reliability and surety of costs and longevity, go back to your traditional manufacturers. If you decide to buy this car, figure out a way to get an extended warranty.

FWIW, I once bought a first year model from a manufacturer with a middling to low reliability reputation. That vehicle was in the shop about 6x more than my model 3 has been at an equivalent level of miles (7k). Over the years, the manufacturer and extended warranty company had to pay 10s of thousands of dollars to keep that car running. With both that car and the model 3, I knew I was taking risk.

IMHO, if you are starting your potential ownership with this post, you are not ready to own this car (unless you get lucky).

 

[LoveEV]

Haven’t they made 120,000 they should have ironed out any issues

 

[cwerdna]

Six years ago this week I took delivery of a Model S Signature P85. I still own the vehicle and reliability has been excellent. Most important is how Tesla repaired and improved the vehicle through the years. It has been a remarkable car and it gave me the confidence to purchase a Model X and a second Model S. The vehicles were built well. Any later issues were addressed completely by Tesla.

I have not followed your other vehicles, but I recall you mentioning a "punch list" which I cannot find. However, I would NOT characterize your Model X to be "well built" if you had 34 or 45 items for them to address.

I found these of yours:
Post Initial Problems with the Model X
Post Initial Problems with the Model X 34 items
Post Initial Problems with the Model X 45 items
Post Initial Problems with the Model X

If you could point me to the punch list, if it exists, that would be helpful.

There are obviously huge variances in what people are willing to tolerate or would consider reliable. I certainly disagreed with this 8th drive unit Model S guy who characterized his car has 100% reliable. How reliable is your Model S?

And the guy I quoted at 2017 Model 3 Reliability claimed "In six years of owning Tesla I have not been in for service." yet it was early taking in his S about once a month!

 

[Jdcorbitt3]

My wife’s Model S has 76,000 miles on it. She has never been stranded. Small issues were resolved, and recently (Takata airbag) they came to the house to fix it. I have 13,600 miles on my Model 3. It is one of the first 5000 made. I have never been stranded as well. They replaced a camera within the first 30 days and yesterday, I got a notification that my charging door needs service. The cool thing is the door has not failed, but the car sees a potential problem and wants service to look at it. My personal experience is this car is just as reliable as a Toyota and more reliable than a Lexus.

Bottom Line. Enjoy your new Model 3. They get better with time, as Tesla keeps adding features even to my wife’s 6 year old car.

John

 

[Mark Z]

...I recall you mentioning a "punch list" which I cannot find...

The Model X in question was during the first 25 vehicles made. Model 3 is far beyond that number. Even so, the punch list never needed to deal with the quality of the drive. Model X was a dream to drive and enjoy. Being a very early adopter, I was extremely detailed with every issue. The punch list was not published as it had photos for the Service Center that was specific only to my vehicle. Every alignment of trim and paint issue was shown. Differences between Model S and X were listed like the front trunk needing a decorative lid ceiling panel (it was dropped on all new designs.) About half the items ended up being normal, it was the way the vehicle was built.

Questions were on the list to ask if items were missing. Looking back, some items never made it to Model X, such as thick manuals in the glove compartment and a full sized parcel shelf. Some of the text from my list and several other owners helped create a check list to encourage everyone who took delivery to examine their vehicles carefully. The goal was product improvement. Tesla solved each issue over time and went beyond with new designs that improved the operation and reliability. And when perfection was needed, the software was modified. The result helped everyone enjoy Model X more.

I will mention one concern that I found going over the old threads. The Model S uses a reliable pin style connector for weather seals on the front doors. Model X and 3 have used adhesive. My X vehicle did have two front driver door seals (with double sided adhesive) that came loose. Reliability reports from early Model 3 owners can address any concern to help new buyers with their questions.

My 2012 Model S VIN was over 600 and the quality was excellent from day one.

 

[EricUSC]

@Nick79 What is your VIN number? Inspect the paint carefully and look for any fisheyes or defects in the paint and let us know what you find.

I previously rejected a Model 3 in September (VIN 97xxx, Sep build date) because there were way too many paint defects on every panel. I'm now scheduled to take delivery of VIN 122xxx (Nov build date) this weekend and hope that Tesla has improved paint quality over the past 2 months. Does anyone have evidence if Tesla improved paint quality over the past 2 months?

 

[TampaRich]

There’s a reason why so many Tesla owners say they love their cars. There’s a reason why so many existing Tesla owners bought their second Tesla when the Model 3 came out. These cars are truely something special.