I'm thinking of putting 18" wheels on my M3P. Traction question

[thesmokingman]

I'm aware, I've changed to different tires many times without changing wheels. The difference I feel doesn't match my experience with the difference between similar tires in the same category.

That said I've never used the exact same model tire when changing to a different size/weight wheel. It just never worked out that way in terms of tire size availability and my tire preferences.

It would be neat to compare 20" Potenza Sports on Uberturbines vs my current setup, and 18" PZ4 on my new wheels vs the OE setup, but I'm not wealthy enough to buy tires I don't actually want just to settle this!

It might just be the PZ4's as they are the second best max summer tire just a hair behind the Pilot Super Sports. That said it's really hard to quantify changes as our/human memory is not a good barometer of actual changes.

 

[tm1v2]

It might just be the PZ4's as they are the second best max summer tire just a hair behind the Pilot Super Sports. That said it's really hard to quantify changes as our/human memory is not a good barometer of actual changes.

@thesmokingman Have you used the PZ4 or are you just going by that Tire Rack comparison? (I don't know if your M3P came with PZ4 or PS4S.)

The PZ4 my M3P came with were way more than a hair behind the Potenza Sport I switched to. Which granted is a much newer tire than the PSS, but I'm doubtful that the PZ4 are "second best" at this point. Sorry, but that Tire Rack comparison doesn't match the reality I experienced.

Maybe Tesla is buying a cost-reduced version of the PZ4 and if I tried a regular PZ4 they'd be much better? Not going to risk my money on that after being disappointed by the OE PZ4, but I am open to believing it.

 

[thesmokingman]

@thesmokingman Have you used the PZ4 or are you just going by that Tire Rack comparison? (I don't know if your M3P came with PZ4 or PS4S.)

The PZ4 my M3P came with were way more than a hair behind the Potenza Sport I switched to. Which granted is a much newer tire than the PSS, but I'm doubtful that the PZ4 are "second best" at this point. Sorry, but that Tire Rack comparison doesn't match the reality I experienced.

Maybe Tesla is buying a cost-reduced version of the PZ4 and if I tried a regular PZ4 they'd be much better? Not going to risk my money on that after being disappointed by the OE PZ4, but I am open to believing it.

The PZ4's on Teslas are the Elect ie. ECO so they likely are not at the same level as the regular Zeros so your hunch is probably spot on.

I just took a look at the Potenzas and they're not ranked at Tire Rack above the PS4 or the PZ4.

 

[mrfiat74]

I ordered the FC04 18" wheels from CanadaWheels.ca - Your Experts in Wheels, Tires & Auto Parts They were very helpful on the phone in making sure these wheels will fit a M3P. The web page for the FC04's says Free Shipping, but if you click on the question mark, there is only free shipping if you order tires too. That is a bit misleading. The shipping for my order was $300. That seems about right for shipping from CA to NM. Two days later they emailed me and wanted an additional $300 for shipping. I feel that is a poor business practice and there should be a warning on their website that they might do that. I called them and they said it was because they were shipping to the U.S., but no apology for my trouble. I cancelled the order. $600 for shipping is way too much. The annoying things is I had already ordered the tires from a different vendor so now I have to deal with that. I was unhappy with my experience with them. I haven't been able to find another 18" wheel I like that will fit a M3P other than the Martian wheels. (too expensive) If anyone has any suggestions on 18" wheels that will fit a M3P, I would appreciate them. Thanks.

 

[Apprunner]

I ordered the FC04 18" wheels from CanadaWheels.ca - Your Experts in Wheels, Tires & Auto Parts They were very helpful on the phone in making sure these wheels will fit a M3P. The web page for the FC04's says Free Shipping, but if you click on the question mark, there is only free shipping if you order tires too. That is a bit misleading. The shipping for my order was $300. That seems about right for shipping from CA to NM. Two days later they emailed me and wanted an additional $300 for shipping. I feel that is a poor business practice and there should be a warning on their website that they might do that. I called them and they said it was because they were shipping to the U.S., but no apology for my trouble. I cancelled the order. $600 for shipping is way too much. The annoying things is I had already ordered the tires from a different vendor so now I have to deal with that. I was unhappy with my experience with them. I haven't been able to find another 18" wheel I like that will fit a M3P other than the Martian wheels. (too expensive) If anyone has any suggestions on 18" wheels that will fit a M3P, I would appreciate them. Thanks.

There is an extensive wheel thread which has many options. I bought T-sportline because they were offering free shipping and seemed reasonably priced. I believe they are having a sale now. I got the TST that look like Tesla's arachnid wheels. 18 inch wheels were definitely a noticeable improvement in ride quality. I'm really happy with the decision.

 

[tm1v2]

I ordered the FC04 18" wheels from CanadaWheels.ca - Your Experts in Wheels, Tires & Auto Parts They were very helpful on the phone in making sure these wheels will fit a M3P. The web page for the FC04's says Free Shipping, but if you click on the question mark, there is only free shipping if you order tires too. That is a bit misleading. The shipping for my order was $300. That seems about right for shipping from CA to NM. Two days later they emailed me and wanted an additional $300 for shipping. I feel that is a poor business practice and there should be a warning on their website that they might do that. I called them and they said it was because they were shipping to the U.S., but no apology for my trouble. I cancelled the order. $600 for shipping is way too much. The annoying things is I had already ordered the tires from a different vendor so now I have to deal with that. I was unhappy with my experience with them. I haven't been able to find another 18" wheel I like that will fit a M3P other than the Martian wheels. (too expensive) If anyone has any suggestions on 18" wheels that will fit a M3P, I would appreciate them. Thanks.

@mrfiat74 For budget flow-formed wheels I think Konig has some reasonably nice looking options, like the Ampliform. They don't mount directly to any Model 3 hubs but you can get them in 73.1 center bore at a stock-like offset and use centering rings made for M3P hub stepped lip.

I've no experience with Konig wheels or those Muteki centering rings myself, but they're on my short list for future winter wheels if I don't spring for a second set of forged wheels.

Speaking of which, I've been really happy with my forged Titan7 T-S5, which are made and machined specifically for the M3P, no centering rings or spacers needed. They even have some concavity to them which is rare for 18x8.5" at stock offset. (You can tell somewhat from the back wheel perspective in this picture.) At $2k shipped for a set I think they're out of the price range you're aiming for though.

 

[mrfiat74]

Thanks. I looked at the TST wheel, but I wasn't wasn't totally happy with how it looks and plus I'm trying to get a 19 lbs or less wheel and the TST is 23.6 lbs. The TS-5's look amazing! I like the way the stock M3P wheels look, I just don't like how heavy they are and how expensive the tires are. So far, I only like the TS-5's and the Martian wheels, but they are $2400 shipped. I'm leaning towards just replacing my tires on my stock wheels due to how expensive the aftermarket wheels are that I like. I appreciate everyone's help!

 

[gearchruncher]

I ordered the FC04 18" wheels from CanadaWheels.ca - Your Experts in Wheels, Tires & Auto Parts They were very helpful on the phone in making sure these wheels will fit a M3P. The web page for the FC04's says Free Shipping, but if you click on the question mark, there is only free shipping if you order tires too. That is a bit misleading. The shipping for my order was $300. That seems about right for shipping from CA to NM. Two days later they emailed me and wanted an additional $300 for shipping.

In 2020, Canada Wheels sold me FC04's that were "In Stock."
It took them 3 months to even ship them, because they were not actually in stock, and when they did get them, they damaged them. Then when they got good ones, they had to drill them. "In stock" means "we know where some are somewhere on the planet."
Throughout the process they constantly told me that they were only a week out from shipping and that they had put a rush order on them, but simultaneously I was at the end of the queue behind people that had ordered after me.

When they did finally ship, they shipped a completely different set of wheels to me as well. These were ordered and shipped after mine and arrived well before mine. They then called me and told me that I needed to go drop off the accidental wheels to be shipped back, as if it was my fault. When I requested some sort of compensation for the hassle, they told me they were unable to offer anything except a discount on a future order if I ordered again in the next few months.

Avoid if you can.

 

[mrfiat74]

Thanks for the info on Canada Wheels. Sound like they have some major customer service issues. (which I have already experienced)

 

[Tes3P]

I just ordered a set of 18" wheels for my "to be delivered" M3P. Now trying to decide what tires to put on them. Would going to a smaller diameter, maybe 245/40-18 increase 0-60 times with being a slightly lower gearing? I assume the speedometer can be corrected on the screen. Lowering the car slightly may reduce battery consumption?

 

[tm1v2]

I just ordered a set of 18" wheels for my "to be delivered" M3P. Now trying to decide what tires to put on them. Would going to a smaller diameter, maybe 245/40-18 increase 0-60 times with being a slightly lower gearing? I assume the speedometer can be corrected on the screen. Lowering the car slightly may reduce battery consumption?

@Tes3P The only speedometer + odometer adjustment options are for the official Tesla Model 3 wheel+tire sizes. I don't think there is anything for such a small diameter as 245/40R18 though I don't have my 3 with me to check.

With a smaller diameter tire you will lower the car slightly (less ground clearance), possibly get quicker acceleration from a dig, but worse highway speed acceleration and worse highway efficiency would be my guess, along with worse ride quality of course.

If you're drag racing I say try the small diameter. Otherwise I don't think it makes any sense personally, these cars are already super quick at very low speeds, so to me it doesn't make sense to worsen highway performance, nor to make your odometer increase quicker than actual mileage. Your preferences may vary of course!

Edit: Maybe smaller diameter could be beneficial for autocross, not sure there. For just street use smaller diameter seems like a downgrade overall.

 

[Tes3P]

@Tes3P The only speedometer + odometer adjustment options are for the official Tesla Model 3 wheel+tire sizes. I don't think there is anything for such a small diameter as 245/40R18 though I don't have my 3 with me to check.

With a smaller diameter tire you will lower the car slightly (less ground clearance), possibly get quicker acceleration from a dig, but worse highway speed acceleration and worse highway efficiency would be my guess, along with worse ride quality of course.

If you're drag racing I say try the small diameter. Otherwise I don't think it makes any sense personally, these cars are already super quick at very low speeds, so to me it doesn't make sense to worsen highway performance, nor to make your odometer increase quicker than actual mileage. Your preferences may vary of course!

Edit: Maybe smaller diameter could be beneficial for autocross, not sure there. For just street use smaller diameter seems like a downgrade overall.

Didn't know highway acceleration would be less with smaller tires. Maybe a 245/45-18 the better choice. And improve highway performance? If only Tesla tire corrections are available then my speedometer would be very little off with this 245/45 tire. Hopefully 0-60 won't be reduced any appreciable amount. Probably better or same than the 20" wheels that come on the car.

Don't do autocross but I like to see a drag strip now and then!

 

[jackmott]

Actually this test as already been done: (not with a Tesla though)

Are lighter wheels really better?

We always hear that lightweight wheels are better, but do they actually make you go faster on track?

grassrootsmotorsports.com

The lighter wheels allow the car to accelerate faster and handle better as per the article.

of course this is true, but the magnitude of the effect is smaller than most people realize. Especially on Teslas with software limited acceleration rates.

 

[tm1v2]

Didn't know highway acceleration would be less with smaller tires. Maybe a 245/45-18 the better choice. And improve highway performance? If only Tesla tire corrections are available then my speedometer would be very little off with this 245/45 tire. Hopefully 0-60 won't be reduced any appreciable amount. Probably better or same than the 20" wheels that come on the car.

Don't do autocross but I like to see a drag strip now and then!

@Tes3P Highway acceleration should be slightly weaker with shorter gearing (in theory) because these motors produce less power as they spin that fast, that's why they start falling behind similarly powerful ICE cars at highway+ speeds. With single speed drivetrain can't shift to a different gear to get back in the powerband. I'm not saying the difference would be large, don't even know if one could tell via butt dyno, but since these cars are already challenged to keep up at higher speeds but super quick at low speeds, just seems like not a great tradeoff.

245/45R18 is a great practical size if using 18x8.5" wheels . That's what I run on my M3P. The difference between 245/45 or 235/45 is minimal, I personally prefer the slightly wider and taller 245.

I don't do any drag racing though and virtually never do full throttle from low speeds in this car...so my priorities could be different! I think you'd be hard pressed to measure a consistent 0-60 difference between 245/45R18 vs 235/45R18 but in theory maybe 235 would have a tiny advantage there with the very slightly smaller diameter / shorter effective gearing. But maybe in 1/4 mile runs that advantage would be negated by the higher speeds involved favoring 245? I really don't know and again I think you'd have a tough time showing a consistent difference from such a small diameter change anyways.

 

[Tes3P]

@Tes3P Highway acceleration should be slightly weaker with shorter gearing (in theory) because these motors produce less power as they spin that fast, that's why they start falling behind similarly powerful ICE cars at highway+ speeds. With single speed drivetrain can't shift to a different gear to get back in the powerband. I'm not saying the difference would be large, don't even know if one could tell via butt dyno, but since these cars are already challenged to keep up at higher speeds but super quick at low speeds, just seems like not a great tradeoff.

245/45R18 is a great practical size if using 18x8.5" wheels . That's what I run on my M3P. The difference between 245/45 or 235/45 is minimal, I personally prefer the slightly wider and taller 245.

I don't do any drag racing though and virtually never do full throttle from low speeds in this car...so my priorities could be different! I think you'd be hard pressed to measure a consistent 0-60 difference between 245/45R18 vs 235/45R18 but in theory maybe 235 would have a tiny advantage there with the very slightly smaller diameter / shorter effective gearing. But maybe in 1/4 mile runs that advantage would be negated by the higher speeds involved favoring 245? I really don't know and again I think you'd have a tough time showing a consistent difference from such a small diameter change anyways.

Good to hear from someone running the 245 tire. Your theory sounds good with being better on highway with taller gearing. Although only slightly. I think I will try the 245/45-18 first and see how they 0-60. Now to find a brand that holds traction. Almost has to be a Summer tire for traction. That's what comes on the car. What tire are you running? And on the few times you went WOT from zero did they hold traction?

 

[jackmott]

Good to hear from someone running the 245 tire. Your theory sounds good with being better on highway with taller gearing. Although only slightly. I think I will try the 245/45-18 first and see how they 0-60. Now to find a brand that holds traction. Almost has to be a Summer tire for traction. That's what comes on the car. What tire are you running? And on the few times you went WOT from zero did they hold traction?

If you worried about straight line traction, any tire is going to be fine. The Tesla is software limited to 1g and with it's lack of camber and all wheel drive even crappy tires do it.

 

[Tes3P]

If you worried about straight line traction, any tire is going to be fine. The Tesla is software limited to 1g and with it's lack of camber and all wheel drive even crappy tires do it.

Now that's good to know! I just assumed that to hold traction all Tesla's need Summer tires. That opens my choices a lot better! Thanks!

 

[Knightshade]

Now that's good to know! I just assumed that to hold traction all Tesla's need Summer tires. That opens my choices a lot better! Thanks!

Bear in mind the biggest reason to get sticky tires isn't acceleration- it's braking.

The tires are what stops the car.

Great summer tires will stop you from highway speeds ~30+ feet shorter than mid-grade all-seasons.

 

[Apprunner]

Bear in mind the biggest reason to get sticky tires isn't acceleration- it's braking.

The tires are what stops the car.

Great summer tires will stop you from highway speeds ~30+ feet shorter than mid-grade all-seasons.

I like the PS4S because i can hold the corners at insane speeds. Unfortunately, my tires only lasted 15k miles

 

[tm1v2]

Good to hear from someone running the 245 tire. Your theory sounds good with being better on highway with taller gearing. Although only slightly. I think I will try the 245/45-18 first and see how they 0-60. Now to find a brand that holds traction. Almost has to be a Summer tire for traction. That's what comes on the car. What tire are you running? And on the few times you went WOT from zero did they hold traction?

@Tes3P Bridgestone Potenza Sport. Excellent cornering grip for a street tire, easily better dry and wet than the OE Pirelli PZ4.

Dual motor Model 3 have very good straight line traction, I think almost any tire is good for launches though I'm not a drag racer at all, some others here have far more experience to verify that. (Now for my RWD S P85 I can say good summer rubber is important from a dig! )

In fact, for longer drag races like 1/4 mile, or especially any rolling race, I think it might be the opposite - you'll actually be faster overall with a low rolling resistance (LRR) tire like the MXM4 than a high performance tire, because you'll still have good enough launch traction and you'll gain efficiency at higher speeds. I believe that's why M3LR (with and maybe without AB) are often shown to pull very slightly on M3P at high speeds - the LR AWD is putting out the same power at those speeds, and is usually fitted with more efficient tires.

Personally I'll never use the MXM4 or anything like that on my M3P (yes I've used it on another car once), the terrible cornering grip and feel isn't remotely worth it to me...but I'm not drag racing either, my fun+intensive driving these days is twisty back roads. If you're going to drag strips and facing close competition maybe a tire like that is worthwhile for you!