steve841
Active Member
Holy crap! You folks like some chilly weather .. I think we hit 50F last week. Time to salt the driveway?
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Impact of cold on range, performance, battery life?
- Thread starter Mike_Schlechter
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I wasn't joking when I said -10C was "mild". -30C (-22F) isn't unusual. That said, -40C (-40F) is unusual.
EcoHeliGuy
Member
The battery pack still charges at low temperature, it just can't handle the extreme current of regen until the battery pack is warm.
I disagree, in cold weather the last thing you want is to lift off the accelerator and find yourself spinning on ice.!
You start getting a little wiggly and the best thing you can do (unless you have FWD) is to let off the accelerator and coast until the car gets stable (FWD sometimes light acceleration can get you out of a jam). Cars do funny things during snow/ice storms and some of the automation that makes sense in summer driving are terrible up where i live (MN). Breaks sometimes slows the front of the car, but not the back (hence the spin). If you have ever watched youtube crash video's with icy streets, you see the people that lock up their breaks and there is no control. The cars that have the higher chance of survival let off their breaks to straighten the car back up and get the limited amount of traction to steer their car.
Worry a little about a RWD car with RWD regen breaking as on ice it would seem that it would work much like hitting your e-break. I have done it twice in the winter above 40 mph to avoid accidents and it aint for the faint of heart (although it is a blast under 20 mph if you are screwing around). Be interesting to see how the TC handles this. There would be no way in **** that i would take off the TC in winter with a 60 KW RWD regen brake.
Worry a little about a RWD car with RWD regen breaking as on ice it would seem that it would work much like hitting your e-break. I have done it twice in the winter above 40 mph to avoid accidents and it aint for the faint of heart (although it is a blast under 20 mph if you are screwing around). Be interesting to see how the TC handles this. There would be no way in **** that i would take off the TC in winter with a 60 KW RWD regen brake.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes but I was responding to Robert's suggestion that 15 minutes of warmup would allow full pack performance out of the gate. Even with use it's going to take a while to warm up, one reason lithium cells are so efficient is low effective internal resistance, i.e. less self heating.
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What if you have a heated garage, and full regen is available? I assume the TC takes care of that.
But, for longer drives, it's really not. If you never go outside 80-90 mile radius from your home, you're golden. If you go farther, you'll need to stop and charge. For many here, this is apparently a non-issue, but I think for the masses it WILL be an issue.
I took a trip 90.1 miles last Sunday that should have been doable without charging. Close, but doable. Luckily there was an outlet at my destination, so I got to charge up. I did. Good thing too, the temp dropped quite a bit while we ate dinner and hung out at our friend's house and used up much more range on the way home than on the way there. Had they not had a high power outlet, we would have been forced to stop at the J1772 a local community college had set up. How convenient is leaving after a great night and driving to a parking lot to sit for 1.5-2 hours while you grab enough range to make it home?
85 kWh battery? You left with a full battery? Temperature? Nnot enough details to really understand your point.
Wow. Having the superchargers here in CA really changes the game. We've stopped in Hawthorne on a couple such evenings. 15min bathroom break and we're golden.
But it also never gets below he 40s here. And the fact that I got NEMA 14-50s put in at our company's offices makes my long work drives a non-issue, but that's my unique circumstance.
Imagine when there's a 240v connection in every garage!
But it also never gets below he 40s here. And the fact that I got NEMA 14-50s put in at our company's offices makes my long work drives a non-issue, but that's my unique circumstance.
Imagine when there's a 240v connection in every garage!
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I assume you mean 90.1 miles each way, so you were trying for 180.2 miles total, with some time in the middle where the battery would get cold. This should have been easy starting with a range charge. I think that would have been possible even with a standard charge, and without charging at the destination, but even if you only had a 120v outlet, that would have been enough to keep the battery warm while you ate. In that case, 180 miles on the 85kWh is easy.
I didn't expand on it since I'd posted it elsewhere, but I don't think that's necessary to convey my point. My point is, if I hadn't been able to charge at my destination, I would have had to stop for at least an hour and a half at a charger. The trip is an hour and a half alone. That, my friend, I would find inconvenient, which was in response to:
So, while many here don't stopping to charge inconvenient, I think the masses will, which might back up:
*edit*
I thought so too. Started with 269 on the dash, and figured I could use only 130 of range one way and be OK. I used 130, the temperature dropped below freezing while the car sat outside, and used more than 135 on the way back. 110v probably would have helped too, but again, what if there wasn't one at our destination? Being able to charge at my destination is not a common thing, which brings me back to having to stop to charge (or take a gasser).
Jaff
Active Member
Really? That's how we react any time someone doesn't bend over backwards to look past issues? Assume there's mal-intent? Did I say I had to call a tow truck? Did I say I didn't make it?
*edit* I took imprecise notes, so here is data from my return trip sunday. I assure you, there was no driving in circles.
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Agreed. Although he was probably just trying to be funny, that was definitely low.
Thanks for sharing your driving experience. 536Wh/mile seems high. Do you remember how fast you were going? Regardless, even though you made it, you can't deny that there would have been some range anxiety at the end of that trip for pretty much anybody.
I think at this point, most people's feelings are that the "convenience" you get by not having to fill up at a gas station is not enough to overcome the "hassle" of charging and related anxiety on long distance trips - even though they occur sledomly for most people. This should change as more and charging stations and superchargers pop up.
Actually, rereading the BoA comments in the OP, I pretty much agree with them. It appears that current demand may be enough to keep Tesla profitable in the near future, but there is no doubt that overall demand for electric cars will be tepid until the infrastructure grows and matures. Fortunately I think Tesla is addressing the infrastructure issue, and is in a good position to grow as a company WHILE the technology and infrastructure grows.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Whoa, AO! Your average energy usage is like 100Wh/mi higher than mine; never mind doing a trip with 536Wh/mi. I'm not a slow driver but that's surprising.
I think we draw the same conclusions. Revolutionary car, but not currently for everyone. Given a couple of years of infrastructure development, it would be much better. If I can plug in at just about all of my destinations, that would be a huge step forward. When folks ask about the car one thing I hear often is "So there's no backup? When the battery runs out, that's IT?". Plug-in hybrids will be around for a while methinks.
How often does it hit 21 degrees in Florida? :wink: I think it was the cold (for a good long while after we left, I still had the dotted line on regen), and heating the cabin. Speeds were lower than my usual because #1 it was late and I was tired and #2 there wasn't really anyone on the highway (I tend to drive faster when there's people in the way for some reason).
Like I said, the way there was no problem. Average usage on the way there was around my usual 440. I didn't think to snap a shot until after we ended up getting the car plugged in for a second time (we plugged in, then had to move the car so another car could get out of the driveway), and by then it was gone, but it was around 440. I remember because I was hoping to get 390-410.
Every time you stay at a hotel with your Model S, call and ask to speak with parking or someone in engineering. Explain to them you have an electric car and will be arriving on a certain date. Ask if they can find at least a 110V outlet or maybe even install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage. While you are there, try and meet with management and ask for dedicated charge stations. This will go a long way into easing people's concerns about travel and make buying the Model S a little easier. This will all take many years of course.
I would be willing to bet a dollar or two that your return trip was headed more toward the north or west then your trip there. Those 25 to 30 mph winds we had last Sunday night were brutal and have a huge impact on range.
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