Impressive how much effort Tesla Energy will waste on nonviable plan

[The Horsts]

It's been impressive how much time and effort (albeit likely largely automated) Tesla Energy will waste on a completely nonviable plan.

From the first moments of my order, Tesla produced a panel layout that placed the majority of the panels on the NORTH side of the house -- tilted AWAY from the Sun -- and on the East side of the house whose roof line is broken up by two hip roofs AND is partially blocked by a tree.

Hopefully the attached picture will display properly since it shows them putting the panels in the one part of the roof that is in the shadows!

For almost two months (literally, from the 2nd day), I've been telling them it is nonviable, but the only people I've been able to talk to are "Project Advisors" who are junior people who's main job appears to be a) tell me I can't talk to anyone else and b) remind me I have documents to sign to allow the project to progress.

From a very nice website starting point, the process has devolved into junk.

Any suggestions as to how I can talk to a real designer?

 

[BrettS]

Unfortunately I don’t believe that any mere mortal like us has ever been successful in talking with an actual tesla designer. The messages need to be passed back and forth through the energy advisors. However, that said, I’m not sure that you have too many other options, especially if you really want a system that large. You might be able to get a few panels on the west facing roof, but it looks like your roof changes pitch in the middle of that section, which I suspect is why tesla avoided putting panels there in the first place. It will probably very much limit the number of panels that you would be able to put in that section.

Exactly what were you thinking of in terms of panel placement that would be viable?

 

[BrettS]

In the end, unfortunately Tesla can be very hard to work with if you have specific design considerations in mind. Tesla is one of the lowest cost solar providers right now and the way they keep their costs down is by using a cookie cutter approach, which can wind up with sub optimal systems in some cases. They are usually somewhat willing to work with people on panel layout (although it can be difficult to work through the process as you can’t speak directly with a designer).

However, if you really have a specific design in mind you are probably better off looking for a local installer. Most local installers are more than happy to sit down with the homeowner and design a system that perfectly fits their wants and needs. Of course the trade off is that you’ll pay more for that sort of service, but if you really want a company that is easy to work with and will be able to do everything you want then Tesla is not it.

 

[holeydonut]

IMO, your house isn't a very good candidate for solar. Punching in your address (you may want to trim out the street number from your picture if you don't want to dox yourself), the only roof that seems to be a good candidate for solar also has many of your vent holes and roof penetrations. And it looks like you have a tree south of your home that casts an unfortunate shadow on this roof as well.

You can check out a solar-map of your home here:
Project Sunroof

I think if you really want to get solar you should speak with a local installer to get a real human opinion instead of the canned AI stuff Tesla will use on you during their frontline sales process.

 

[jjrandorin]

Price, Quality, Service ---- Choose two.

 

[The Horsts]

Unfortunately I don’t believe that any mere mortal like us has ever been successful in talking with an actual tesla designer. The messages need to be passed back and forth through the energy advisors. However, that said, I’m not sure that you have too many other options, especially if you really want a system that large. You might be able to get a few panels on the west facing roof, but it looks like your roof changes pitch in the middle of that section, which I suspect is why tesla avoided putting panels there in the first place. It will probably very much limit the number of panels that you would be able to put in that section.

Exactly what were you thinking of in terms of panel placement that would be viable?

At the minimum, they could put the panels on the sunny part of the exiting roof around where the red "map pointer" is located in the picture. At least it would be in the sun there.

But, though this (old) satellite image doesn't show it, there's a new continuous piece of roof under construction where that red patch of old patio is represented. It's a 14.5' x 23.5' piece of south-facing roof without any obstructions. Should be enough to hold 12-16 panels on its own. I've explained this to them from the outset, but they've ignored all my comments.

In any case, why they think panels on a north side that is tilted away from the Sun will produce anything is beyond me.

 

[The Horsts]

IMO, your house isn't a very good candidate for solar. Punching in your address (you may want to trim out the street number from your picture if you don't want to dox yourself), the only roof that seems to be a good candidate for solar also has many of your vent holes and roof penetrations. And it looks like you have a tree south of your home that casts an unfortunate shadow on this roof as well.

You can check out a solar-map of your home here:
Project Sunroof

I think if you really want to get solar you should speak with a local installer to get a real human opinion instead of the canned AI stuff Tesla will use on you during their frontline sales process.

(Thanks. Thought I had chopped off enough of the address to remove that possibility.)

I agree. The existing roof it not ideal. A continuous, no-vents piece of 14.5' x 23.5' roof is under construction which is where I want most of the panels to go. I completely naively expected I'd be able to talk to someone at Tesla about this. They've even had a person out for a site inspection, but cookie-cutter process still dominates.

I was seduced by their prices and the slickness of their battery backup system, but I think it's time to move on. Just wanted to complain a bit before I go. :-(

 

[wjgjr]

(Thanks. Thought I had chopped off enough of the address to remove that possibility.)

I agree. The existing roof it not ideal. A continuous, no-vents piece of 14.5' x 23.5' roof is under construction which is where I want most of the panels to go. I completely naively expected I'd be able to talk to someone at Tesla about this. They've even had a person out for a site inspection, but cookie-cutter process still dominates.

I was seduced by their prices and the slickness of their battery backup system, but I think it's time to move on. Just wanted to complain a bit before I go. :-(

Did the person performing the site inspection get photos of the new roof (perhaps drone mages?) My guess is that unless/until images with that roof are pretty literally shoved under the nose of the design team, they will ignore it. Most likely they are continuing to operate off of their standard image sources, which have not been updated recently enough for your situation.

Also, is this now a fully enclosed/walled area? I saw elsewhere a poster indicating Tesla seemed to have concerns with installing on roof sections such as those that covered patios but did not have full walls. I don't know if this is the case here.

 

[holeydonut]

(Thanks. Thought I had chopped off enough of the address to remove that possibility.)

I agree. The existing roof it not ideal. A continuous, no-vents piece of 14.5' x 23.5' roof is under construction which is where I want most of the panels to go. I completely naively expected I'd be able to talk to someone at Tesla about this. They've even had a person out for a site inspection, but cookie-cutter process still dominates.

I was seduced by their prices and the slickness of their battery backup system, but I think it's time to move on. Just wanted to complain a bit before I go. :-(

Their battery system by itself (no PV) could still help you by letting you charge up during off-peak and then use the stored energy during peak. It may not offset the ~90% efficiency loss to do this shifting, but it's worth looking at if you're experiencing PSPS or other energy disruption.

 

[nwdiver]

Price, Quality, Service ---- Choose two.

.... two? If the price is low enough... like ~$2.01/w... I think that counts as 'two'.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Yes, you can only have two of price/quality/service in a lot of scenarios, but residential solar isn't one of them. $2.01/W is absurdly cheap, but they can EASILY boost service by quite a bit and still sell at something like $2.10/W(dropping prices perhaps 3%/yr as they scale).

The narrative of cookie cutter offerings driving low costs is NOT true. It's almost exclusively a lack of sales cost. Put it this way, in SolarCity's last couple quarterly reports, guess how much their sales cost was on average.........$.91/W!

That's a LOTTA MONEY!

You can think of Tesla as proceeding with their reramp of solar not with a plan of what to do, but of only knowing definitely what NOT to do. Pretty ballsy(and sometimes painful) plan. Everyone else is doing literally the opposite. Gonna take Tesla a bit to get it right, but they can do it and it won't be expensive.

 

[gpez]

Price, Quality, Service ---- Choose two.

Not to be too picky but should be price, quality, speed - choose two. Quality includes product and service, this feels like poor quality!

 

[jjrandorin]

Not to be too picky but should be price, quality, speed - choose two. Quality includes product and service, this feels like poor quality!

I have heard it said both ways...

I would counter argue (well "argue is waaay too strong a word, lets go with "counter discuss" ) that most people here are happy with the quality of their physical install, once they get to that point.

For solar installs (or powerwalls) I dont think there is a selection where you can choose "speed" as a criteria, lol.

 

[SMAlset]

I don’t see them addressing your solar based on construction of the new space until it’s done. Remodel/new addition projects can run into all kinds of delays and snags; it’s happened to us on a couple of permitted projects inside and out. Also might be hard or impossible for them to get a permit on something that the city hasn’t signed off on yet as finalized. I know Tesla had to wait until our main service panel was updated. It ended up affecting our line drawings that got filed with the city.

Given what they have to work with now, the design is possibly the best they can come up with and that would likely take into account your cutting down the roof-shading tree or trimming it back to eliminate that aspect if possible.

That roof section with the red pointer looks really steep and likely not doable.

 

[pdx_m3s]

It's quite surprising how quick Tesla is to add panels to a north-facing roof plane, even when there's other space available.

 

[SMAlset]

It's quite surprising how quick Tesla is to add panels to a north-facing roof plane, even when there's other space available.

where are you suggesting they place them?

 

[pdx_m3s]

where are you suggesting they place them?

This example shows one of the weaknesses in Tesla's centralized approach (it's part of how they keep the cost down... they are extremely centralized and streamlined). They are just using satellite imagery for the initial design. A site survey is really needed here to confirm the viability of the lower east- and west-facing planes. They shouldn't jump to a design so quickly, especially when it's not exactly clear from the imagery and results in north-facing panel placement.

I would solve this problem by giving the regional teams drones with a lidar imager on them for fast and accurate roof surveying.

 

[SaveOurPlanet]

I had Solar Panels design originally then switched to Solar Roof design, both times I questioned Tesla's placement choice of panels and Solar Tiles. I finally agreed to their choice of Solar Tiles placement after talking to the advisor and observing sunlight on my roof for a while. My only options are East facing or West facing, but there are lots of tall pine trees on the West side so I actually get almost 7 hours of sunlight on the East side (maybe 4 hours peak usable) while probably 4 hours of sunlight on the West side (maybe 2.5 hours peak usable). Project Sunroof gives me about 4.1 usable sunlight daily and does not favor East or West side. PVWatts gives a little more production on the West side but not that significant. So at the end of the day, it is how much energy it would provide and does it meet your need. I am going with Solar Roof and the target placement and know I would pay more for less because of the lower efficiency but all that matters is that it would meet my energy requirement.

 

[BrettS]

This example shows one of the weaknesses in Tesla's centralized approach (it's part of how they keep the cost down... they are extremely centralized and streamlined). They are just using satellite imagery for the initial design.

I don’t think this is just Tesla. I got 3 or 4 other quotes for solar before I went with Tesla and every single one of them used satellite images for the panel layout.

 

[FlJay]

I don’t think this is just Tesla. I got 3 or 4 other quotes for solar before I went with Tesla and every single one of them used satellite images for the panel layout.

Just for another data point. I had a local contractor come out to give an estimate before Tesla. The satellite image of my house was not good at all. He then pulled up another app and it had a much better view of my roof. He said that it was an app that you had to pay to use and used aerial photography. This photo was much more recent and was a much better image. I live in a highly wooded area and have had some trees trimmed and removed within the past year. In fact with the more accurate photo he was able to find room for a 60 panel layout when the Tesla job was 48 panels. I recently found out that Tesla used the wrong house when it created my proposed panel layout. It appears that they used my neighbors house/roof for the layout. My roof us completely different. I now have a site survey scheduled at the end of the month. Hopefully they will have access to the better roof image.

Jay