in Production 90d - Enhanced AP + F-S-Driving Capability?

[Ojas Ray]

Need some input folks -- I placed my custom order MS 90d early October. Seeing how they just updated the autopilot -- to me it seems like a no brainer to pay the extra 2000 (3000 AP1) and get the enhanced autopilot. I confirmed with my DS that my car will carry the new hardware.

The question is - do I pay the extra 3000 for the full self driving capability? Would this even be possible in NJ / USA ? I can't help to see insurance companies and congress passing such laws. Are we as a country there yet? Additionally, the fun of the Tesla is DRIVING IT not just sitting in it ( i mean its pretty cool to sit in it as well).

My wife's argument is - you are buying (loan) a 100K vehicle -- 3k isn't at the end of day going to kill us. My thinking is, I think the FSD isn't going to be ready in December. And what if laws are passed that prevent this sort of transport? Do I get my money back? 3K is still THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS!! by no means am i rich - so every dollar means something...

any input, thoughts - are much appreciated.

My DS said - i should be getting a email from Tesla asking if i want to change my order -- i emailed him right away on thursday - saying I want to change without the 500 change fee... so i am assuming Tesla would be reaching out to me???

 

[brkaus]

If all goes as planned, I'll order end of Nov. I don't think I'll pay the extra.

 

[Jeff4155]

If it was me I would get AP2 and when and if you still own the vehicle when FSDC is allowed and in full motion then and only then pay the extra 1k$ and get FSDC, Elon mentioned that he thinks the full FSDC will be in operation in two to three years and we all know how good he is at keeping to a deadline

 

[JohnnyG]

...Elon mentioned that he thinks the full FSDC will be in operation in two to three years...

Hey Jeff, can you please site your source to your quote above? As I understood Elon's announcement, he will be turning on functions of the FSDC throughout the year, with the full FSDC being fully demonstrated by the end of next year, with a cross country drive from Los Angeles to New York. This drive will be with literally no intervention from the occupant, including no need to get out to plug in the SuperCharger. This is straight from the press conference, at 6 minutes and 30 seconds into the call as an answer to the question from Jack Stewart with Wired.

 

[PtG62901]

You will be able to use all the functionality, as long as you are in the driver's seat, regardless of laws.

 

[JohnnyG]

You will be able to use all the functionality, as long as you are in the driver's seat, regardless of laws.

@PtG62901 -- That sounds fantastic, except that Elon specifically stated in the press release that they would be enabling features every 2-3 months, as allowed by the regulators. So, it sounds like all of the features will be progressively enabled over time, as they receive approval to do so. You won't be able to use a feature whether you're in the driver's seat of not, if it isn't enabled. And he also specifically stated that he wasn't enabling features "regardless of laws", but instead working with the regulators.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Given the software and bureaucratic record so far, I'd be timid about paying up-front for a feature no one knows if or when will ever be available.

I guarantee you other automakers are going to lobby hard that a self-driving vehicle without rear-facing radar is dangerous and that Tesla's implementation should not be approved. And Tesla hasn't been great in resolving these bureaucratic issues thus far, given the number of states in which they're still not permitted to officially operate fully-functional showrooms.

 

[Vger]

I decided to pay upfront for the whole package, for the P100D I just ordered yesterday. I considered waiting, but felt that I want all the hardware activated from day one. I interpret what they are saying as that it will take some time to get validation and then clearance for true self-driving, but that ALL the new hardware will contribute, over the months, to a highly enhanced AUTOPILOT experience. I am fascinated to see what that amounts to, being an incurable early-adopter pioneer.

 

[PtG62901]

@PtG62901 -- That sounds fantastic, except that Elon specifically stated in the press release that they would be enabling features every 2-3 months, as allowed by the regulators. So, it sounds like all of the features will be progressively enabled over time, as they receive approval to do so. You won't be able to use a feature whether you're in the driver's seat of not, if it isn't enabled. And he also specifically stated that he wasn't enabling features "regardless of laws", but instead working with the regulators.

Now let's think what that means? All the features that are in AP 1.0, that aren't in AP 2.0? They will be added on the fly. Then, they will start adding the rest of the features. Until the regulators clear them, it can't park without a person in the car, but you know that demo video, "take me to work?" That is legal today. Telsa will detect a driver in the front seat, and away you will go. Go park, without a driver, that needs to be legislated. Very soon, AP 2.0 will be better then 1.0, all legally.

 

[MP3Mike]

Go park, without a driver, that needs to be legislated.

Only if it has to go on a public street. If it can stay on private property it can park itself. (i.e. Smart Summon)

 

[MP3Mike]

Hey Jeff, can you please site your source to your quote above? As I understood Elon's announcement, he will be turning on functions of the FSDC throughout the year, with the full FSDC being fully demonstrated by the end of next year, with a cross country drive from Los Angeles to New York. This drive will be with literally no intervention from the occupant, including no need to get out to plug in the SuperCharger. This is straight from the press conference, at 6 minutes and 30 seconds into the call as an answer to the question from Jack Stewart with Wired.

I think Elon was saying that the "AP Convenience Features" level should be available around December, and that the extra "Enhanced AP" features will be rolled out progressively every 2-3 months. The FSDC will probably be a flip of the switch once it is done and approved by the government.

So I wouldn't expect all of the "Enhanced AP" to be available until the end of next year. Which is about the time that they expect to be able to show a demo self-driving Tesla going from LA to New York. (Probably with a driver sitting at the wheel ready to take over to make it legal.)

 

[Joe F]

The question is - do I pay the extra 3000 for the full self driving capability? Would this even be possible in NJ / USA ?

Since Chris Christie hasn't been impeached, yet, you should hope so. You might need it for future lane closures. Life in the fast lane is not in your future.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Only if it has to go on a public street. If it can stay on private property it can park itself. (i.e. Smart Summon)

We're in uncharted territory here, but I'm not sure that's the case. It seems entirely possible to me that a property owner would not want vehicles driving themselves around on their property.

 

[Cyclone]

Hey Jeff, can you please site your source to your quote above? As I understood Elon's announcement, he will be turning on functions of the FSDC throughout the year, with the full FSDC being fully demonstrated by the end of next year, with a cross country drive from Los Angeles to New York. This drive will be with literally no intervention from the occupant, including no need to get out to plug in the SuperCharger. This is straight from the press conference, at 6 minutes and 30 seconds into the call as an answer to the question from Jack Stewart with Wired.

While I would be ecstatic if full autonomous is activated by end of 2017, I doubt it. I just want to say that even doing a LA -> NY drive fully autonomously on a "manufacturer's test vehicle" is different than the same feature being available to end-users.

If I was replacing my Tesla today, I would get Enhanced AP and wait on doing full autonomy until the software is out. For all I know, I might replace my Tesla again by that time!

 

[MP3Mike]

We're in uncharted territory here, but I'm not sure that's the case. It seems entirely possible to me that a property owner would not want vehicles driving themselves around on their property.

OK, that is probably true, but do any property owners currently have those rules? Obviously in this example Tesla allowed it on their own property.

 

[Cyclone]

OK, that is probably true, but do any property owners currently have those rules? Obviously in this example Tesla allowed it on their own property.

For the areas I have experienced (limited compared to all the places in the US), most property owners simply adopt the rules of the public roadways and call it a day. But that is not a requirement - just easier on most of them to not bother with it.

 

[HookBill]

My wife and I just informed our DS about 30 minutes ago to add both Enhanced and Self Driving features to our order. She and I sat down this morning and went through everything Tesla had put online to make sure we added exactly what we wanted with the caveat that some of it could be added later. Or decision was not based solely on the gee-whiz factor of full autonomy but looked at it from a total safety aspect.

Although not clarified by Tesla, my assumption was that the four Enhanced cameras would be the three forward facing and the one now-intelligent rear camera. The four cameras mounted on the car's side would be the four added with the Self Driving option. To us, these four additional cameras were important from the standpoint of visibility of cars in the blindspot and approaching from longer distances. While everything seems to point to their true value at the time of full autonomy, our view is that they will be active even before the granting of autonomy and will possess very important safety elements that the Enhanced option could not provide. These, to us, were extremely important and worth the money even if full autonomy is years down the road. This so-called safety cocoon with having eight cameras operating and looking out for your safety was worth the extra $3K at this time. On top of that, it added very little to an already large monthly car payment and was a much better option than someone potentially lying in a hospital bed.

How everyone views this issue is a personal one but this was some of our reasonings behind our decision.

 

[MP3Mike]

Although not clarified by Tesla, my assumption was that the four Enhanced cameras would be the three forward facing and the one now-intelligent rear camera. The four cameras mounted on the car's side would be the four added with the Self Driving option.

I am almost positive that the 4 cameras used by the EAP level will be:

• The main forward looking camera
• The two rear-facing side cameras
• One of the remaining forward looking cameras. (Wide angle or long range.)

The reason for that is that EAP is supposed to be able to change lanes completely on its own when it sees it needs to go around something. It can't do that without the rear-facing side cameras. (The middle rear camera wouldn't have a good enough coverage of the lanes to the side.)

 

[theslimshadyist]

For me, paying the $5K for Enhanced AP makes sense, these features will start to be rolled out in Dec of 2016 and will only be improved/better during 2017. FSDC doesn't make sense right now due to all of the regulations that need to be approved. It could be in 2017, 2018, 2019, who knows so I'd rather hold on to my money for now.

 

[Mowglee123]

I completely agree with the above comment by theslimshadyist. However, my only concern is that there is no guarantee that Tesla will keep the price of FSDC to 3k in the future. it could be 3k, 5k or even 20k... thoughts?

 

[HookBill]

I am almost positive that the 4 cameras used by the EAP level will be:

• The main forward looking camera
• The two rear-facing side cameras
• One of the remaining forward looking cameras. (Wide angle or long range.)

The reason for that is that EAP is supposed to be able to change lanes completely on its own when it sees it needs to go around something. It can't do that without the rear-facing side cameras. (The middle rear camera wouldn't have a good enough coverage of the lanes to the side.)

Mike, you bring up a good point that eluded us. Either way, just knowing I have eight eyes looking out for me, even without full autonomy, made the extra cost worthwhile. As I stated earlier, it is a decision that will be different for each of us.