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Inaccurate Range Stressed New Owner

Mrbrock

Member
Mar 26, 2020
685
368
Napa, CA
The Tesla mileage display is a joke. I started with 295 miles, drove 190 miles and stopped for lunch with 50 miles left on the display. An hour later, I got in my car and the display showed 22 miles and I was only able to drive 12 miles before the battery ran dead. Tesla was going to charge me $130 for a tow. Then they canceled my service appt to fix the problem, claiming the mileage display worked perfectly. What a joke.
The mileage display I am sure was working fine as other have mentioned. While your car was stopped and lost 28 miles of range, did you have anything running like climate keeper or Sentry Mode? Anything that is running uses energy which reduces miles. Keep that in mind when activating all these extra features and don't fault the car for not properly understanding how it works.
 
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TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,151
696
Belleville IL
I wish the EPA would display range the same as ICE vehicles, one for CITY and one for HIGHWAY and then combined (average for new EV owners).

Funny for EPA ratings the numbers are reversed, on an ICE the Highway id higher than the City and for an EV the City would be higher than the Highway.

But that 316/326 Tesla displays and advertises is a joke. You'd need to average
From a parallel thread…

“Think 300+ mile city, 180 mile highway, and 220ish combined. This would do a great deal to bring everyone's expectations in line with real world results.”
Agree, and the EPA and Tesla should show a City, Highway, and Combined (average) range. The 316/326 Tesla advertises is a joke.

The thing that causes the most issues for new EV owners is the fact that with an ICE vehicle they get better fuel mileage at highway speeds, whereas an EV gets worse, so the 316/326 becomes an impossible number to reach.

To get the EPA/Tesla 316/326 range I believe one would need to average about 240 wh/mi, that's barely doable in the city in ideal conditions and impossible at freeway speeds.

From my 2020 LR AWD window sticker
x9cqQJa.jpg


This should be clearly communicated to any NEW EV/Tesla owner. They need to focus on their wh/mi number(s) vs the number of miles the car displays by the battery icon.

And our man Bjorn conducted a pretty conclusive test drive on an LR M3 and came to similar results.
 
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emergentsea

New Member
May 15, 2020
3
0
Tx
I drive from Austin to Bryan College station all the time. MY is long range with 110mile trip going 70-75mph. I charge to 260 before leaving home and never have issues coming back other than during the ice storm where temp was 10 degrees.

If OP has this issues often there there is an issue
 

Charliek

Member
Oct 20, 2017
109
70
Vriginia
This is one of the unexpected benefits of EV. It’s pretty obvious that this is possible. What I didn’t expect was that it totally changed how I experience an automobile.

In an ICE car, I would never sit in a park with the AC and motor running for any significant length of time.

With EV, I can relax, take phone calls, talk to a friend, watch people, take a break between meetings, or simply relax... all climate controlled, basically unlimited.

I was aware of “Tesla Camping” but I didn’t anticipate the daily lifestyle changes made possible by EV.

Now if teenagers hop in the back of their cars on a hot Summer night... well, let’s just say it’s a new generation. LOL
and the car windows wont fog up ( not that I know anything about that :cool:)
 
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Charliek

Member
Oct 20, 2017
109
70
Vriginia
just to put this in perspective for those who are not in camiarillo or san diego ( where it is 72 nearly every day and you might be able to drive for long stretches at 65 or even under) . you should really move to monitoring battery percentage versus miles as other posters have recommended. My normal " perfect " day consumption runs <268 Avg W/Mile on a MS 90D ( circa 2017). now on one 10-12 degree snowy winter day I put all the seats on , had the defrosters on front and back and the heated steering wheel and my consumption was over 800W/Mile!. I didn't even need to know what that was on Mileage setting as I knew that would be that bad.I just looked at it like my iPhone was dropping faster (like when you use google maps). I have generally found the NAV estimates for a long trip coming in around +_ 1 % unless the route is extremely steep mountain passes or significant weather changes . if you give yourself no less than 10 percent at arrival ( hopefully near a super charger at destination) Range anxiety will disappear. I have gotten down to <4% and was getting jumpy looking at the plug share ap at that point for any level 2 spot ( when there were much less super chargers than today) . remember we are actually still at the beginning of the EV transition
 

Mrbrock

Member
Mar 26, 2020
685
368
Napa, CA
From my 2020 LR AWD window sticker
x9cqQJa.jpg


This should be clearly communicated to any NEW EV/Tesla owner. They need to focus on their wh/mi number(s) vs the number of miles the car displays by the battery icon.
So you want the information on the window sticker clearly communicated to owners? Do you want it permanently painted somewhere that you see if every day or would a giant piece of paper be enough? Or is there other information you want to see? They are converting to the revered mpg that you say people need. I think what you really want is a city range and highway range. But the information there if people do a little searching.
 

ratsbew

Active Member
Mar 3, 2012
1,265
923
O'Fallon, IL
Speed kills range. I can normally plan out a road trip in 1-2 minutes. All you need to do is have a basic understanding of your route and plans and then work charging into that. If you travel along a supercharger route it is a non-issue. If you are off the routes you'll have to do 1 minute of planning to see what your options are.
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,007
544
Bay Area CA
See the 28 kW-hr/100 miles on the sticker?

I'm getting more than 120 miles per 28kWh. That includes 2x 2500ft mountain passes, freeways, 'Boosting it every time I get :), ...etc...
MY_efficiency_28kWh.jpg


I wish the EPA would display range the same as ICE vehicles, one for CITY and one for HIGHWAY and then combined (average for new EV owners).

Funny for EPA ratings the numbers are reversed, on an ICE the Highway id higher than the City and for an EV the City would be higher than the Highway.

But that 316/326 Tesla displays and advertises is a joke. You'd need to average

Agree, and the EPA and Tesla should show a City, Highway, and Combined (average) range. The 316/326 Tesla advertises is a joke.

The thing that causes the most issues for new EV owners is the fact that with an ICE vehicle they get better fuel mileage at highway speeds, whereas an EV gets worse, so the 316/326 becomes an impossible number to reach.

To get the EPA/Tesla 316/326 range I believe one would need to average about 240 wh/mi, that's barely doable in the city in ideal conditions and impossible at freeway speeds.

From my 2020 LR AWD window sticker
x9cqQJa.jpg


This should be clearly communicated to any NEW EV/Tesla owner. They need to focus on their wh/mi number(s) vs the number of miles the car displays by the battery icon.

And our man Bjorn conducted a pretty conclusive test drive on an LR M3 and came to similar results.
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,007
544
Bay Area CA
Only 800W/mile?

Here's 954 Wh/mi avg over the past 5 miles going up a 2500ft mountain road. At the end I wound up with 223 Wh/mi average over ~44 miles.


MY_Efficiency_March_2021.jpg




just to put this in perspective for those who are not in camiarillo or san diego ( where it is 72 nearly every day and you might be able to drive for long stretches at 65 or even under) . you should really move to monitoring battery percentage versus miles as other posters have recommended. My normal " perfect " day consumption runs <268 Avg W/Mile on a MS 90D ( circa 2017). now on one 10-12 degree snowy winter day I put all the seats on , had the defrosters on front and back and the heated steering wheel and my consumption was over 800W/Mile!. I didn't even need to know what that was on Mileage setting as I knew that would be that bad.I just looked at it like my iPhone was dropping faster (like when you use google maps). I have generally found the NAV estimates for a long trip coming in around +_ 1 % unless the route is extremely steep mountain passes or significant weather changes . if you give yourself no less than 10 percent at arrival ( hopefully near a super charger at destination) Range anxiety will disappear. I have gotten down to <4% and was getting jumpy looking at the plug share ap at that point for any level 2 spot ( when there were much less super chargers than today) . remember we are actually still at the beginning of the EV transition
 

jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,295
576
U.S.
I’m always surprised by how many people are obsessed with not getting anywhere near rated rated range with EV’s but with ICE. In my Audi A7 I didn’t get anywhere the rated MPG and why estimated remaining miles always dropped much faster then the miles driven.

My Audi had a great computer with a bar graph that showed potential MPG and actual MPG in a segmented view. You could easily see how much was being used my the AC. Seat heaters, etc. Everytime you turned anything on it showed you how much it was using in MPG but also color coded in the segmented bar display.

FYI the weight of an entire family I’m sure had some impact in lowering that range.

When I had my MBZ S class and I pickup up some title for the contractor the weight was so much that my MPG dropped drastically. I don’t have kids and rarely drive with more than 2 people, including myself but all that added weight will be a far hit, along with with AC, speed, and other things like wind, hill incline, etc others mentioned.
 

jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
511
309
Charleston
I’m always surprised by how many people are obsessed with not getting anywhere near rated rated range with EV’s but with ICE. In my Audi A7 I didn’t get anywhere the rated MPG and why estimated remaining miles always dropped much faster then the miles driven.
So, I have asked that question of a few range obsessed folks, and I've gotten a few answers:
  • Charge times are much longer than the 5 minute fill up.
  • I stop every few hours... but not necessarily at the same place as the superchargers exist.
  • I stop every few hours... but not 150-180 miles, more like 240-300 miles
  • Chargers aren't everywhere, so now my trip has to have a lot more planning, and some are actually pretty inconvenient.
I think these are all pretty fair concerns that really don't apply to a gas car, even if the gas car doesn't get rated mileage. If the EV actually had 320+ miles of real world range, these would be much less significant there too.
 

Pianewman

Member
Oct 28, 2020
786
477
Fort Worth
provide any guidance on what to do or how to solve the problem

So, I have asked that question of a few range obsessed folks, and I've gotten a few answers:
  • Charge times are much longer than the 5 minute fill up.
  • I stop every few hours... but not necessarily at the same place as the superchargers exist.
  • I stop every few hours... but not 150-180 miles, more like 240-300 miles
  • Chargers aren't everywhere, so now my trip has to have a lot more planning, and some are actually pretty inconvenient.
I think these are all pretty fair concerns that really don't apply to a gas car, even if the gas car doesn't get rated mileage. If the EV actually had 320+ miles of real world range, these would be much less significant there too.

Current EVs aren't for everyone, certainly not the mainstream "road tripper" that isn't interested in modifying their behavior in an effort to offset global warming concerns.

From an absolute safety perspective, we should ALL stop every 150-180 miles, to alleviate mental, visual, physical fatigue.
 

jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
511
309
Charleston
Current EVs aren't for everyone, certainly not the mainstream "road tripper" that isn't interested in modifying their behavior in an effort to offset global warming concerns.

That really needs to change if you want to maximize impact. Its so close right now, tbh, just needs a little more range and a few more chargers.

From an absolute safety perspective, we should ALL stop every 150-180 miles, to alleviate mental, visual, physical fatigue.
That's barely more than 2 hours in some places!
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,238
6,740
Canyon Lake,CA
I have a similar issue with range on my gasser. When I first fill up it seems to go a long way on the first quarter of the tank, but when it gets down to the last quarter it burns through it much faster.

This is just an example of how gauges are often misleading and an informed driver will need to be aware of their realities, instead of relying on the fantacy of the gauges.

In an EV, the driver is in control of the range. Driving faster, erratic, in rain, in snow, in headwinds, elevation changes, will always result in differences between actual range and the predicted range from your computer.

If the driver wants to achieve EPA rated range they must drive like the EPA testing is done. If they choose to drive faster they must accept that their range will be lower. Uninformed drivers often end up with egg on their face when they drive at high speeds and then must explain to their passengers that they need to stop to get a charge.

This is just the reality of computed range. Tesla has a pretty good system, where the computer will take into consideration the variables caused by the way they are driving. It will change, on the fly, to alert the driver how quickly they are burning through electrons and notify them that they may not reach the Supercharger of their choice without slowing down. Driver can ignore this alert and stop at a closer Supercharger (if available) or even as OP did, plug into a destination charger to get enough added range to get to the selected Supercharger.
 

Hexo09

Member
Mar 8, 2021
59
46
Bay Area, CA
Only 800W/mile?

Here's 954 Wh/mi avg over the past 5 miles going up a 2500ft mountain road. At the end I wound up with 223 Wh/mi average over ~44 miles.

I’d be really interested to see how you drive or the kind of roads you are on. I consider myself a pretty conservative driver and I only average 250-260wh/mi at best. Granted most of my driving (85%) is on freeway, but rarely over 70mph.

That really needs to change if you want to maximize impact. Its so close right now, tbh, just needs a little more range and a few more chargers.


That's barely more than 2 hours in some places!
Growing up and when I learned how to drive, I was always told that when traveling, you should stop every 2-2.5hrs to limit the risks of dozing off, lower attention, cramping etc... I didn’t grow up in the US. I even think it was a recommendation by the government. Granted these recommendations might be different when you do half of your “driving” with AP or FSD...
 
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mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,007
544
Bay Area CA
People seemingly treat their EVs like they're gassers and it's completely wrong. EV owners should charge frequently and ride the charge wave if getting from point A to point B quickly is the goal. An EV get the highest charging rate when the battery SoC is low and temperature is hot.

Also, electrons are vastly cheaper than the premium my old gasser needed. I'm spending <1/3 for refuelling my Tesla.

I’m always surprised by how many people are obsessed with not getting anywhere near rated rated range with EV’s but with ICE. In my Audi A7 I didn’t get anywhere the rated MPG and why estimated remaining miles always dropped much faster then the miles driven.

Another point: My old gasser was always more efficient after an oil change and got steadily worse as the miles piled on.

I have a similar issue with range on my gasser. When I first fill up it seems to go a long way on the first quarter of the tank, but when it gets down to the last quarter it burns through it much faster.

Where I drive: think sports cars and tuners. I'm generally using AP when I'm on freeways and surface roads.

AudiR8_McLaren.jpg


I’d be really interested to see how you drive or the kind of roads you are on. I consider myself a pretty conservative driver and I only average 250-260wh/mi at best. Granted most of my driving (85%) is on freeway, but rarely over 70mph.
 

DanDi58

Member
Jun 22, 2020
754
558
Dayton NJ
Using tacc at setting 1 is further away than I follow when I drive myself. It doesn’t seem too close to me but everyone is different. I believe that setting is over 100 feet at 75 mph but do what you’re comfortable with.
I think you have it backwards - setting '1' is close, setting '7' is far(ther). I started out a weekend road trip at '7' and felt like that was probably 7 car lengths. I ended up at '5' and found that more comfortable - less room for NJ drivers to cut in and out.... ;-) I will say that I love the TACC functionality. Still getting comfortable with Autosteer, especially when in traffic with cars or trucks that are weaving within their lane a bit....
 

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